I.P address

[The Bogeyman]

Hey,

I'm sure this is again something simple, and I'm making schoolboy errors, but I'm using the customised firmware in my HDR, and I'm loving the remote control through the web interface. I have set up some good macros. However, often when I switch my HDR on, it has switched IP addresses and I have to go into the setup menus to find out where it is now, needing the physical remote to do. Do you know of a way of forcing the HDR to stay on the same IP address. I tried setting one in the menu>settings>system>Internet setting>configure LAN(wifi)>configure IP> manual and changing it in there, but it just eventually stops working.

 

[Ezra Pound]

There is no reason why menu>settings>system>Internet setting>configure LAN(wifi)>configure IP> manual should not work permanently, however as you are choosing the IP address yourself, must ensure that nothing else on the network will to use the IP address you pick. You must also set all the other parameters correctly, e.g. if the address of your router is 192.168.123.1, a typical set of parameters would be :-
IP address = 192.168.123.XXX
Netmask = 255.255.255.0
Gateway = 192.168.123.1
DNS = 192.168.123.1

 

[dandnsmith]

I've been using a fixed IP address since soon after getting my box (some 6 months ago). The only times I've had a problem was when changing from using a wireless dongle to a wired connection to an (wireless)access point, when it took a a little time to settle the box after the changes.
If the router supplies the IP addresses (for DHCP), then there is usually a way of setting the range of IP addresses it supplies so as not to conflict with any manually assignments (or you can assign based on MAC for the box).

 

[Andy Hurley]

What they said.

If you are going to set a fixed IP then you need to make sure your router does not assign the same address to another device. There is usually a way to set an address or a range of addresses that do not get used by the DHCP. On some routers (like my Netgear) you can tell it to give a fixed IP to particular devices, that way you can leave the Hummy to use DHCP and just set the fixed address via the router. I do the same for my wireless printer and NAS so I have fixed addresses for them which keeps things much simpler to manage.

Whatever you do though you are going to need to look at the router configuration.

 

[The Bogeyman]

Great.... Thanks guys. I'll look into it.

 

[RedEarth]

IMHO, fixed IP addresses should only ever be used on a peer to peer network where there is no router or DHCP server. If you have a DHCP server (which pretty much all home broadband routers include these days), you should configure that to allocate a specific IP address to the Hummy (and any other devices that you want to access via IP address). Any router that doesn't allow allocation of fix IP addresses is not fit for purpose. In an ideal world the router would also incorporate a decent DNS server, and you'd be able to access all your devices by host name rather than IP address, and the IP address would not necessarily need to be static. Sadly, domestic routers with reliable DNS servers don't seem to be that common.

 

[MartinLiddle]

IMHO, fixed IP addresses should only ever be used on a peer to peer network where there is no router or DHCP server.

Sorry I disagree; it certainly doesn't apply to my situation where equipment is used in different locations with different routers. I prefer to limit the range of IP addresses available to DHCP and manually allocate IP addresses for certain things from outside that range.

 

[af123]

The other option that saves messing around with the network and router is to install the zeroconf package and then access the Humax by name as humax.local - that will continue to work even if the Humax changes IP address.

This requires that your client supports the zeroconf name resolution protocols but Windows and MacOSX do out of the box and it's easily added to Linux (avahi-daemon package)

 

[Black Hole]

I have found zeroconf to be unreliable with iPad/Safari. In any case I need fixed IP addresses for my multi-FOX networked set-up.

FWIW, my O2 router allows me to log in to the management console and look at devices that have registered (even if currently off-line), and set their IP address allocation to expire "never". When the device phones in with a DHCP request, it is recognised by MAC address (unique to each individual item of hardware with networking capability ever made - dunno what they're gonna do when codes run out) and allocated the address that has been registered for it. I could also manually configure an IP address at the router to be allocated to that device.

However, my 'FOXes on HomePlugs sometimes fail to configure an IP address by DHCP - the HomePlug appears not to wake up quickly enough to transmit the DHCP request to the router. Going into the Internet Setting options on the 'FOX, clicking "Apply" makes the DHCP retry (possibly with a longer timeout) and the allocation is successful - but this is a pain in the arse when one has turned on the server to retire elsewhere and peruse one's recordings from a client 'FOX. I found the HomePlug issue (Devolo) can be fixed by configuring manual IP instead of DHCP.

Manual IP address configuation has to be done carefully, because of the risk that the user will (by mistake) configure more than one device to the same address. Also there is a risk that if the manually-configured device is off-line when a DHCP request comes in to the router, it will allocate that address to another device (eg a friend brings a WiFi laptop to your house) with a potential conflict if you then turn on the manually-configured device. I understand some routers have a pool of addresses for manual configuration that are never handed out to DHCP requests, so an address could be manually assigned from one of these. My solution is to start with DHCP, then reserve the allocated address at the router, and then fix it at the 'FOX by changing "DHCP" to "Manual" (keeping the other details the same as were allocated by DHCP).

 

[MikeSh]

Yep, I'm a belt and braces man too. manually set IP on Humax, same IP reserved by MAC address on the router (Netgear).
All my bookmarks, etc, then just work forever.

 

[parish]

Yep, I'm a belt and braces man too. manually set IP on Humax, same IP reserved by MAC address on the router (Netgear).
All my bookmarks, etc, then just work forever.

Personally, I wouldn't do that. Experience has taught me that trying to manage a mixture of static and dynamic IPs will sooner or later cause you grief. You should devise a scheme for your whole LAN and stick with it. A static IP might work OK on your Hummy, but what of you have a device that doesn't allow you to set a static IP? You have to make sure, as others have pointed out, that your DHCP server can never assign an IP used as static if the device with that IP is not on the network.

I use a scheme that has worked reliably for a couple of years now.

All devices - and there could be in excess of 20 on my LAN worst case scenario - are set to use DHCP. On my DHCP server (Apple Airport Extreme) I have a small block (16 IIRC) of IPs allocated for DHCP (for when the kids visit with their phones, tablets, and laptops) the rest are reserved for binding to specific MAC addresses (pseudo-static IPs as I call them). As someone else said, if your router doesn't allow reserving IP for binding to MAC addresses then it's a PoS and you should bin it and get a decent one - BT Home Hubs being a good example.

I've also grouped devices in a logical way so I can easily identify a device purely from its IP. This is really useful for software such as the Serviio DLNA server which only ever reports IP addresses, never hostnames.

For example, my AV kit is on a wall-mounted rack with everything vertical (no devices side-by-side) and I use 192.168.1.12x for their IPs so, going from top to bottom as they are on the rack, my TV is 192.168.1.121, Apple TV .122, Blu-ray .123, and Hummy .124 so if I see 192.168.1.123 I know from .12x that it's AV kit and can easily count down and work out that it's the Blu-ray.

Similarly, computers are .10x for WiFi and .20x for wired, phones and tablets are .11x, which leaves me plenty of room for expansion when white goods start coming with 'net connectivity

 

[Ezra Pound]

You have to make sure, as others have pointed out, that your DHCP server can never assign an IP used as static if the device with that IP is not on the network.

It is very common for routers to have a settable 'number pool' for allocating DHCP addresses, say 2 to 24 for DHCP leaving 25 to 254 for manual allocation so that the router will never try to allocate numbers outside the 2 to 24 range

 

[MikeSh]

Personally, I wouldn't do that. Experience has taught me that trying to manage a mixture of static and dynamic IPs will sooner or later cause you grief.

I'm a bit puzzled since what you then go on to describe sounds like a mix of static and dynamic addresses.

In our domestic environment there is only one device that 'needs' a fixed IP address, which is the HDR, so I have simply told the router (Netgear) to allocate it a static number against its MAC address. That number is within the DHCP range but is reserved, so doesn't matter as it will never be given to anything else. All the other devices - PCs, phones, etc - get DHCP addresses.
I have also set the HDR to use that address manually, just to be certain it doesn't manage to get a DHCP number somehow - weird stuff does happen sometimes.

Should I ever have a goodly number of fixed IPs I might consider a more elaborate scheme but as it is it is quite simple and it works.

 

[parish]

I'm a bit puzzled since what you then go on to describe sounds like a mix of static and dynamic addresses.

In our domestic environment there is only device that 'needs' a fixed IP address, which is the HDR, so I have simply told the router (Netgear) to allocate it a static number against its MAC address. That number is within the DHCP range but is reserved, so doesn't matter as it will never be given to anything else. All the other devices - PCs, phones, etc - get DHCP addresses.
I have also set the HDR to use that address manually, just to be certain it doesn't manage to get a DHCP number somehow - weird stuff does happen sometimes.

Should I ever have a goodly number of fixed IPs I might consider a more elaborate scheme but as it is it is quite simple and it works.

What I described isn't static - hence why I call it pseudo-static - although it has the same effect. With a true static IP the client assigns it's own IP, whereas the way I do it the client is using DHCP it's just that the router will always assign the device the same IP.

This is the way you are set up so you aren't really using a static IP you're using a reserved DHCP IP (unless you also have the Hummy set up with (the same) IP statically EDIT: yes, you have! ).

The problem with true static IPs is that it requires you, the sysadmin, to ensure that you don't get conflicts because a device with a static IP comes on the network and says "Hey! I'm 192.168.1.124!" and it doesn't (can't) check whether another device has that IP.

The reason I don't use (true) static IPs is because you have to assign/manage each IP in a different place (i.e. on each device) whereas using reserved DHCP IPs means that you manage all the IPs in one place - you can see everything on one screen. This way also does some sanity checking against silly typos, e.g. it won't (shouldn't) let you assign an IP outside the sub-net your LAN uses - I once mistyped .168 as .169 when I used static IPs and it took me ages to spot it - and it won't (shouldn't) allow you to assign (reserve) the same IP for two devices.

Here's a screenshot of the DHCP settings for my LAN. Note that although I've limited the addresses to the range .20 - .99 the reserved IPs are still classed as DHCP addresses. Maybe this is specific to the way Apple Airports do things (other routers may require you to have the reserved IPs within the range). Doing it this way means that transient devices, e.g. my daughters' phones, will get addresses in the .20 - .99 range and not in the middle of my "structured" range, e.g. they won't get .103

 

[MikeSh]

..... With a true static IP the client assigns it's own IP, .....

Ah. I see what you mean now. I didn't know that, I have always understood static as just meaning 'fixed'.
Yes, managing it from the devices would be a PITA.

So, to stray a bit OT for a moment, presumably getting a fixed IP address from your ISP is not in fact a 'static' IP, it's them giving you a reserved IP on their DHCP.

 

[MartinLiddle]

The reason I don't use (true) static IPs is because you have to assign/manage each IP in a different place (i.e. on each device) whereas using reserved DHCP IPs means that you manage all the IPs in one place - you can see everything on one screen.

But the limitation of that scheme is that it falls apart if the router is not present. In my (rather unusual world) that is frequently the case so I use a mix of true static IP addresses for things I need to connect to and DHCP allocation for the rest. I have been doing it that way for twenty plus years and haven't had any problems.

 

[parish]

Ah. I see what you mean now. I didn't know that, I have always understood static as just meaning 'fixed'.
Yes, managing it from the devices would be a PITA.

So, to stray a bit OT for a moment, presumably getting a fixed IP address from your ISP is not in fact a 'static' IP, it's them giving you a reserved IP on their DHCP.

I guess it would be, although I'm not sure how they manage the massive pools of IP addresses they have. Sadly I'm with BT who don't offer static IPs for residential customers which means I need to use dynamic DNS in order to access my LAN from the outside world.

 

[parish]

But the limitation of that scheme is that it falls apart if the router is not present. In my (rather unusual world) that is frequently the case so I use a mix of true static IP addresses for things I need to connect to and DHCP allocation for the rest. I have been doing it that way for twenty plus years and haven't had any problems.

True, but then you obviously have specific (and not very common, for home LANs) circumstances. Plus, if no DHCP server is available then a computer (though maybe not devices like the Hummy) should fallback to an automatic private address (169.254.x.y or something like that) so you should have an ad hoc network.

Plus, it's no worse than most home LANs which rely on a router for DHCP addresses.

 

[MartinLiddle]

Plus, if no DHCP server is available then a computer (though maybe not devices like the Hummy) should fallback to an automatic private address (169.254.x.y or something like that) so you should have an ad hoc network.

I always have a DHCP server available; sometimes it is the router, some times it is not. Different people have different requirements and hence there are different ways to do it.