1800T BUFFERING PROBLEM

[tim winter]

I have recently purchased an 1800T after having 9200 and 9300Ts and have a problem with recording buffering.

It seems to work completely randomly, sometimes with no buffering at all, sometimes with more buffering than it is set for and sometimes correctly. This is not due to consecutive recordings as it happens on a stand alone programme.

Has anyone seens this and if so am I missing something and there is a fix or is it one of Humaxes famous software bugs?

Any help appreciated,

Tim

 

[Black Hole]

Please explain what you mean by "buffering". From your post, it sounds like you might mean auto-padding.

 

[MartinLiddle]

I have recently purchased an 1800T after having 9200 and 9300Ts and have a problem with recording buffering.

I assume you mean padding. The later Humax recorders work much better with accurate recording than the models you mention. First thing to try would be to set pre and post padding to 0 and see if that works better. If not come back and tell us what channels the problem is happening on.

 

[tim winter]

I assume you mean padding. The later Humax recorders work much better with accurate recording than the models you mention. First thing to try would be to set pre and post padding to 0 and see if that works better. If not come back and tell us what channels the problem is happening on.

Hello Martin,
sorry I got the terminology wrong, yes I mean padding. I do not like using accurate recording as if you have 2 programmes recording immediately followed by another 2 then if one of the first 2 overuns it one of the following programmes is either cancelled or has the beginning missing. I would rather just lose a bit of a programme rather than the whole lot.
With previous models if padding was used then this did not happen.

I don't see why the channel should matter.

Thanks for the reply,
Tim

 

[Black Hole]

The point of auto-padding is to compensate for programmes starting early or ending late. If you don't use Accurate Recording, the recording starts and ends at the scheduled time for the programme, plus and minus the auto-padding allowances.

This is "scheduled" as per the EPG, not necessarily the published programme guides, so there is still an opportunity for last minute changes to be adopted - but only if incorporated into the EPG sufficiently in advance. "Sufficiently" means at a prior turn on of the recorder - the wake-up to make the actual recording is not good enough, the recording is already committed by then.

Naturally, if you habitually record from services which play a bit free and loose with programme times, your auto-padding allowances may be exceeded.

See Things Every... (click) section 3 - I'm pretty sure the same will apply to the 1800T.

 

[MartinLiddle]

I do not like using accurate recording as if you have 2 programmes recording immediately followed by another 2 then if one of the first 2 overuns it one of the following programmes is either cancelled or has the beginning missing.

It works perfectly well for us in the situation you describe. Have you actually tried it or are you (mistakenly) trying to carry forward knowledge from the earlier Humax recorders?

 

[tim winter]

It works perfectly well for us in the situation you describe. Have you actually tried it or are you (mistakenly) trying to carry forward knowledge from the earlier Humax recorders?

Thanks for the replies, from both, I know how the padding is supposed to work and it always did (with some exceptions) on the previous models.
The 1800T seems to behave differently but I will persevere and see if it begins to make make more sense.

I still fail to see how, with accurate recording, two new programmes can be recorded if a previous recordings overrun (BBC2 nearly always does overrun).

Thanks again for the comments, Tim

The point of auto-padding is to compensate for programmes starting early or ending late. If you don't use Accurate Recording, the recording starts and ends at the scheduled time for the programme, plus and minus the auto-padding allowances.

This is "scheduled" as per the EPG, not necessarily the published programme guides, so there is still an opportunity for last minute changes to be adopted - but only if incorporated into the EPG sufficiently in advance. "Sufficiently" means at a prior turn on of the recorder - the wake-up to make the actual recording is not good enough, the recording is already committed by then.

Naturally, if you habitually record from services which play a bit free and loose with programme times, your auto-padding allowances may be exceeded.

I'm pretty sure the same will apply to the 1800T.

Thanks, the link provides some very useful info.

 

[Ezra Pound]

I still fail to see how, with accurate recording, two new programmes can be recorded if a previous recordings overrun (BBC2 nearly always does overrun).

Neither Accurate Recording or Padding would help in this situation, the 1800T (also the HDR-Fox T2) only has two tuners, if they are both recording they can't record anything else, it is possible to record a third programme but not without user intervention, If BBC2 overruns while it and another channel are being recorded, nothing else can be recorded, the best you can do is use one of the tuners as soon as it becomes free. If end padding is set to say 10 Mins. it will take 10 more minutes before a tuner becomes free, if however AR is used, the overrun will be limited to take up only the extra few minutes.

There are a few rules you may not be aware of:-
1) Humaxs will not record the same channel at the same time, so you can't set up two recordings one the same channel if they overlap
2) If padding is in use, then back-to-back recordings on the same channel will have the conflicting padding turned off , because of 1) above
3) When recording two consecutive programmes on the channel and the first one overruns, the missing 'end' can be found on the beginning of the second recording, not ideal I know, but better than losing it altogether

 

[Trev]

the 1800T (also the HDR-Fox T2) only has two tuners, if they are both recording they can't record anything else, it is possible to record a third programme but not without user intervention,

OK, this is fact, but why is this not possible. If the box is tuned to the (say) BBCB MPX, then surely it should be a fairly simple matter of demultiplexing the required channels on that MPX and recording them. So BBCHD, BBC2HD, 4HD etc. could all be recorded with one tuner, plus or minus the data rate to the HDD.
For instance, an EE TV box can simultaneously record up to 6 channels from 15 on BBCA and D3+4 whilst watching anything else. It does this on a rolling 24 hour (user configurable) schedule for replay of any of the 6 channels up to 24 hours later. You can just 'wind back' the EPG on these channels up to 24 hours. It uses two of its 4 tuners in this configuration. You can also manually record two other channels at the same time (8 in all) so data rate to the HDD does not seem to be a limiting factor.

 

[Ezra Pound]

As far as I know there is no reason that the Humax can't record any number of channels across two MUXs in parallel, this was covered quite a few years ago when the HDR Fox T2 was first launched, but the fact is Humax has decided not to do this. They have gone some way towards this with the new FVP-4000T, which has 3 tuners but can record 4 channels and watch a fifth across 3 MUXs

 

[MartinLiddle]

Thanks for the replies, from both, I know how the padding is supposed to work and it always did (with some exceptions) on the previous models.
The 1800T seems to behave differently but I will persevere and see if it begins to make make more sense.

I still fail to see how, with accurate recording, two new programmes can be recorded if a previous recordings overrun (BBC2 nearly always does overrun).

If using accurate recording then it will wait until the program starts (unless it times out). Please try without padding; this is how the majority have their boxes configured and it does work (although nothing is perfect). Experience with the earlier boxes just isn't relevant.

 

[tim winter]

Sorry folks but automatic padding DOES NOT WORK !!!, example follows:-

Scheduled recordings Sunday 13th BBC2 Special Forces.. 2100-2200 , Odyssey 2200-2240. Start padding 2min, Stop padding 10 min.

Recorded exactly 60 minutes and 40 minutes, as a result end of Odyssey was cut off, as this was the last episode of a series it was rather annoying fortunately it was repeated on Monday and this time I manually padded it to 50 minutes.

The 1800 was not trying accurate recording as the end of Top Grear was on the beginning of Special Forces and the end of Special Forces on the beginning of Odyssey.

Before anyone says it, I presume you can't have auto padding and accurate recording together even though the manual does not say so.

I guess that Humax still don't have any good software engineers and so this is down to one of their bugs which leaves me with 2 alternatives, go back to 8000T days and manually pad or try accurate recording and avoid consecutive recordings. Not very satisfactory.

Humax should try and get the basic recording to work properly before adding all the bells and whistles.

 

[af123]

Before anyone says it, I presume you can't have auto padding and accurate recording together even though the manual does not say so.

Correct. Enabling any padding at all necessarily disables AR.

 

[colirv]

The 1800 was not trying accurate recording as the end of Top Grear was on the beginning of Special Forces and the end of Special Forces on the beginning of Odyssey.

What do you expect the result would have been with no padding and AR?

 

[Luke]

or try accurate recording and avoid consecutive recordings.

To try it, a few tips when switching from auto-padding (e.g 2 minutes prior, 10 minutes post) to Accurate recording (AR):

• The Accurate Recording (AR) timer needs to be set while the options for auto padding are also off.
• Any following adjustment of the auto-padding option, will permanently turn off AR for all existing timers, even of you toggle the padding option back to off.
• Any editing of timers will turn off AR for that timer - even if you just went into edit it and did not change anything but then clicked on 'save' instead of 'cancel'.

 

[EEPhil]

What I would have done to record those two programmes would have been to set the first from the EPG then manually adjust the timer to start from (say) 20:57 and adjust the end time to 22:45 (or 22:50). You would then have both programmes in one file, probably listed under the name of the programme that ran up to 21:00 - but at least you would have them. If you trust AR, as Martin Liddle does at #11 - and as he says, so do the majority of users - turn off automatic padding. As the token AR sceptic - I always use padding and where two programmes are back-to-back use the method I describe. (There are other reasons behind me using auto-padding and not AR with manual-padding where required, but I tied myself in knots when trying to explain it last time - so I'll give that one a miss!)

 

[Black Hole]

Scheduled recordings Sunday 13th BBC2 Special Forces.. 2100-2200 , Odyssey 2200-2240. Start padding 2min, Stop padding 10 min.

Recorded exactly 60 minutes and 40 minutes

There is something very peculiar going on here. Had I done exactly this using HDR-FOX, the first recording would have recorded from 2058 to 2100, and the second from 2100 to 2250. The transition at 2100 would have created a lottery whether the end of one programme was on the beginning of the next (or vice versa).

Can anybody reproduce Tim's observations on 1800T? I find it hard to believe that recording consecutive programmes on auto-padding causes padding to be ignored entirely, without it having been spotted before. Maybe he needs a factory reset to clear the problem.

By the same token, AR (configured by setting both the padding times to zero) should have handled these recordings with no difficulty, especially on BBC and with four years of maturity. If Tim has trouble with AR too, again this suggests a factory reset is needed.

Personally I avoid recording consecutive programmes if they are critical. This is usually possible by taking account of repeat broadcasts, +1 services, and HiDef services.

 

[Luke]

Can anybody reproduce Tim's observations on 1800T?

Or the HDR-2000T as the latest software for both is identical.

Given the scenario wouldn't the HDR-FOX t2 also have recorded 60 minutes for Sunday 13th BBC2 Special Forces.. 2100-2200, as there was another recording ending at 21:00 and one starting at 22:00?

 

[Black Hole]

Any editing of timers will turn off AR for that timer - even if you just went into edit it and did not change anything but then clicked on 'save' instead of 'cancel'.

Good point - but any auto-padding will also be disabled, and any EPG tracking, because the timer becomes "manual". If Tim "inspected" the schedule reservation and then exited in the wrong way, it would explain the observations (as per Things Every... section 3, fourth paragraph).

Given the scenario wouldn't the HDR-FOX t2 also have recorded 60 minutes for Sunday 13th BBC2 Special Forces.. 2100-2200, as there was another recording ending at 21:00 and one starting at 22:00?

It would, but I would also expect such recordings to have been declared in the description of the problem.

 

[EEPhil]

... the first recording would have recorded from 2058 to 2100, and the second from 2100 to 2250. The transition at 2100 would have created a lottery whether the end of one programme was on the beginning of the next (or vice versa).

That is what happened when I tried something similar on a 2000T. It is the transition between that is the problem.

By the same token, AR (configured by setting both the padding times to zero) should have handled these recordings with no difficulty, especially on BBC and with four years of maturity.

True for the BBC. Usually a right pain on the minor channels. It is rather difficult just to set AR on the BBC (for example) and not on the other channels.

Personally I avoid recording consecutive programmes if they are critical. This is usually possible by taking account of repeat broadcasts, +1 services, and HiDef services.

Try that when "The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin" was on - 3 consecutive episodes shown once on a channel that doesn't use AR properly.