4000T scheduled recordings timings wrong

paul4

New Member
#1
Have been very happy with my 4000T but recently scheduled recordings are starting 5 minutes late so I miss the first 5 minutes of a programme, and often losing the end too.

For example set start 18.30 set end 19.00 - but recording starts at 18.35

Ok, I've just discovered "padding" but have never needed it before and I know it might cause conflicts when successive programmes are scheduled.

This all started after a recent (12 Jan 2018) update. I am on UKTFAE 1.03.39

It's a right pain. Any ideas please?
 
#2
Just to say, I have just got the 5000T version and am experiencing the same problems. As a common problem, it may be Freeview Play. It is adhering to the programme guide time rather than signals sent from the broadcaster.

As a temporary measure, I have added 3 minutes padding but will get on to Humax.
 
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paul4

New Member
#3
Thanks

I would rather it adhered to programme guide timings, and it's not doing that. I remember years ago when some of the TV channels had a "new" "signal component" (can't remember what it was called) where a VCR (ooh, that long ago) would adjust timings triggered by this signal. Result was a mess since one never knew what would happen.

What DID happen was that if a programme's start was delayed by, say, 5 minutes the programme's end would also be 5 minutes later of course and would therefore overrule the start signal of the next programme (if you were scheduling two successive programmes) and you'd miss the whole of the second programme since it would not start. As I said, it was a mess.

VCRs could only record one at a time; it improved with 9200T and 9300T which could do two at a time; vastly improved with 4000T which can do four at a time so rarely would there (for me at least) be a conflict. Now adding padding it's a step backwards I feel.
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#4
I would rather it adhered to programme guide timings
Wouldn't we all?
I remember years ago when some of the TV channels had a "new" "signal component" (can't remember what it was called) where a VCR (ooh, that long ago) would adjust timings triggered by this signal.
That''s pretty much what's supposed to happen unless the broadcaster screws the timing up.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#5
Just to say, I have just got the 5000T version and am experiencing the same problems. As a common problem, it may be Freeview Play. It is adhering to the programme guide time rather than signals sent from the broadcaster.

As a temporary measure, I have added 3 minutes padding but will get on to Humax.
Posts #1 and #2 are discussing two different topics.
#1 is about concerns a programme that started to record late and also not according to the schedule, while post #2 concerns programmes where the announced schedule that is being used for the start.

There are a few reasons that a programmes start time may not be ideal.
E.g.
(1) Not all broadcasters use these "signals" and some of those who do then do not use them on all their channels. E.g. UKTV appear to only use them on Really, but not Drama or Yesterday., while BBC do not use them on any radio programmes frequently resulting in truncated dramas, soaps (Archers) and documentaries
(2) Occasionally the broadcasters, or a party in the supply chain, that do use these "signals" mess-up.
(3) This year ITV and BBC have had a new playout mechanism. This has been blamed on a surge of programmes defaulting to scheduled times, or being inaccurate. At least one of those two broadcasters has admitted there was (still is?) an issue.
(4) For live events sometimes an additional process is involved for the "signal". This complicates any retrospective analysis and not all recorders may cater for that as well as some others.
(5) On the Humax freeview recorders interpreting the "signal" may not be 100% successful when the recorder is tuned into channels from more than 1 transmitter.


Have been very happy with my 4000T but recently scheduled recordings are starting 5 minutes late so I miss the first 5 minutes of a programme, and often losing the end too.

For example set start 18.30 set end 19.00 - but recording starts at 18.35
It may be due to being tuned to more than 1 transmitter.
It is difficule to guess with an degree of success as you've not given any specific examples of a programmes and channels or additional detail like what else you were watching or recording at the time. Also stating whether you are in range of multiple transmiters and what they are, and which one you 'pick' for tuning, may also help.
 
#6
Thanks for the comments/suggestions. I tried it recording the same programme on 2 different Freeview Humax devices; the Humax 5000T does not record to the programme broadcaster start and end signals.

The BBC main channels are very reliable in this respect and totally agree, padding is not the long term answer. I am still in the return period so a conversation with Humax will be important.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#7
Thanks for the comments/suggestions. I tried it recording the same programme on 2 different Freeview Humax devices; the Humax 5000T does not record to the programme broadcaster start and end signals.
Are you sure you have set it up correctly? On the HDR-FOX, if you set recording start and end auto-padding times, it applies those to the EPG programme start and end times (not the Accurate Recording start and end signals). To use Accurate Recording, the auto-padding times need to be set to zero.

It would be a huge surprise if the 5000T cannot operate on AR, and probably invalidate their Freeview+ (or whatever) licence.
 

MartinLiddle

Super Moderator
Staff member
#8
It would be a huge surprise if the 5000T cannot operate on AR, and probably invalidate their Freeview+ (or whatever) licence.
Of course it can use Accurate Recording successfully. Assuming padding hasn't been set the most likely problem (as Luke has already suggested) is that the box isn't tuned to a single transmitter.
 
#9
I am absolutely sure Black Hole that is set up correctly to Auto for Start and Finish. It is a big surprise that it didn't work correctly and just to be sure, I did a Factory Default Reset and set everything up again. Auto and Start and Finish for the PVR are the default settings. It has crashed a couple of times when the on-screen displays became extremely faint; a power cycle corrected this.

Thanks for the other comment MartinLiddle. It is tuned to a single (Ridge Hill) transmitter.
 
#11
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I have found in fact the solution in that on the Setup; Settings, Advanced Options, Remote Recording; I had set this to On to use this function.

Unfortunately, this has to be set to Off in order to have the Broadcast Accurate Recording. This is the only setting I changed and I realise that of course, Recording with PVR Record and Playback settings also have to be on Auto, but didn't work with Remote Recording set to ON.

I am not sure whether this is a bug or how it is expected to work?

Thanks again
 
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paul4

New Member
#12
I'm glad you (DaveCheltenham) have found a solution :), but I looked at those settings and it refers to remote schedules set on another device, something that I don't do. The original problem that I posted in (my lead post) is still not solved.

Something has changed and I've assumed it was the Humax update in January.

To add some info as mentioned in subsequent replies :

1. We are in the London area and am tuned to Crystal Palace for all stations
2. The problems occur for BBC1, ITV1, and 5Star - these are regular (my wife's soaps :() recordings.
3. The problems may well be for all recordings but we've not noticed
4. If it wasn't for catchup availability we'd be more unhappy

I don't like using padding as it affects the success of recordings - whether I get the start and the end and perhaps the recording at all. 95% of our viewing is via recordings so we do set a lot and the schedule does get a tad congested.

I hate negatives all of the time. One positive that I've noticed is that after the last update there is now a facility to keep schedules after re-tuning. Before we used to take pics of each page of schedules on our mobile, re-tune, and then sit and re-enter the recording schedules which was a PITA and not always possible due to the limit of the EPG.
 

MartinLiddle

Super Moderator
Staff member
#13
2. The problems occur for BBC1, ITV1, and 5Star - these are regular (my wife's soaps :() recordings.
There were certainly problems with Accurate Recording on BBC channels for an extended period this year from Mid January to Mid March but I haven't seen any problems recently. There were similar problems reported for ITV but they didn't affect me. I can't comment on 5Star as I haven't recorded anything from it recently. Are you still seeing the problem?
 
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paul4

New Member
#14
I remember years ago when some of the TV channels had a "new" "signal component" (can't remember what it was called) where a VCR (ooh, that long ago) would adjust timings triggered by this signal. Result was a mess since one never knew what would happen.
I just needed to say :) that I now remember that this was called PDC (Programme Delivery Control)

Not particulary relevant now, I know, but just saying ............

It was not utilised by all channels, and this was in analogue days anyway. I'm sure whatever is in use in this digital age is far better EXCEPT I still have a problem.

My thoughts are that if it were due to EPGs and TV companies then millions of people would be reporting the issue, so now I think for sure it's a Humax problem and must surely be due to the latest update.
 

MartinLiddle

Super Moderator
Staff member
#15
I am not sure whether this is a bug or how it is expected to work?
A Humax beta tester is going to set up some tests and if they can reproduce your findings the problem will be passed to Humax through the correct channels. In my view there should be no interaction between the ability to set remote recordings and Accurate Recording performance.
 
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paul4

New Member
#16
There were certainly problems with Accurate Recording on BBC channels for an extended period this year from Mid January to Mid March but I haven't seen any problems recently. There were similar problems reported for ITV but they didn't affect me. I can't comment on 5Star as I haven't recorded anything from it recently. Are you still seeing the problem?
Yes, still seeing the problem. But will analyse it tonight, again, to see if I can look beyond (as it were) the added padding and decide if it were just a glitch or still there.
 

MartinLiddle

Super Moderator
Staff member
#17
Yes, still seeing the problem. But will analyse it tonight, again, to see if I can look beyond (as it were) the added padding and decide if it were just a glitch or still there.
If you are currently using padding then Accurate Recording will be disabled. My advice would be to remove padding and see if the problem still exists. At least some of the potential causes of the problems you saw initially have now been resolved.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#18
Yes, still seeing the problem. But will analyse it tonight, again, to see if I can look beyond (as it were) the added padding and decide if it were just a glitch or still there.
Which programme(s) was it so far on 5star?
You mentioned soaps but I thought all the 5star soaps were first broadcast in HD on Channel 5 HD and so would be unlikely regular recording material.
IF you state which soap/programmes I'll also record using different recorders (non-FVP) on a couple of different transmitters - one of them being Crystal Palace as well.

My advice would be to remove padding and see if the problem still exists. .
Are the FVPs similar to other Humax freeview reorders in that when you go from padding to AR the schedule needs to be deleted and then recreated so that the schedule entries use AR?
 
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paul4

New Member
#19
Which programme(s) was it so far on 5star?
You mentioned soaps but I thought all the 5star soaps were first broadcast in HD on Channel 5 HD and so would be unlikely regular recording material.
IF you state which soap/programmes I'll also record using different recorders (non-FVP) on a couple of different transmitters - one of them being Crystal Palace as well.
Thanks Luke

Ok, here are three of the soaps' schedules

Chan5 13.45 - 14.15 Neighbours
5Star 18.30- 19.00 Home and Away
ITV 19.00 - 19.30 Emmerdale

The 5Star soap episode is broadcast as above schedule, and that same epoisode is broadcast (twice) the day AFTER on Chan 5.

FWIW I don't view or record any HD, although I have a fairly new TV I see no quality improvement on HD, in fact my pal reckons my SD is as good as his HD although it's hard to be sure.

Now we just checked something and found something significant. We have 12 episodes of The Chase (ITV 17.00- 18.00) as yet unwatched. The episodes up until April 4 are ok, those from April 5 onwards have the 5 minute late problem.

So we just checked Eggheads (BBC2 18.00 - 18.30) and that has the April 4 / April 5 transition

So April 5 (and NOT the January software update) is the key I guess, but cannot imagine what to deduce from that.
 
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