Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Don't rule out misleading coincidences!
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System Flush Finally Fixes Developing Problems While Trialling CF
- Thread starter Newcoppiceman
- Start date
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
Problem returned after reinstalling Humax 1.03.12 following completion of the RMA process. Plan today was to repeat RMA process but after starting-up PVR there were at least three freeze-and-reboots - then none. Currently monitoring but will repeat the RMA process a few times later, then maybe try a system flush in a few days' time. For whatever reason, behaviour is now different to that experienced for a month or more prior to yesterday.
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
Further testing (details below) has proved this was no coincidence. It's also proved this fault is not a hardware one - so at least I don't have to bother changing all those caps. The RMA process has proved problematic so I guess my only hope now is a system flush (which I've not yet tried).
In the following, to determine whether the fault was present at the time I tried Talking Pictures TV (82) and Sky News (233) - both known to cause the cycle of picture freezes and auto-reboots with very roughly a minute of moving pictures each cycle. At least ten minutes was spent each time checking for the fault.
1. Faulty PVR running Humax FW for 36 hours and exhibiting fault.
2. Custom FW installed and on first boot displayed ENTERING, RMA, MODE (this after the usual custom FW message); fault NOT present.
3. Manually (with remote) Into standby and then on again (after waiting 30s), displayed ENTERING, RMA, MODE; fault NOT present.
4. Into standby again, which caused scrolling display to freeze ( Talkin); clock appeared at HDD off.
5. When turned on this time the PVR again displayed ENTERING, RMA, MODE - then put itself into standby.
6. When turned on this time the PVR displayed == RMA ==; fault NOT present.
7. Into standby and on again, displayed ENTERING, RMA, MODE; fault NOT present.
No web interface activity during the above.
Obviously the next step would be to reinstall the Humax FW, which is what I did a couple of days ago - but I strongly suspect this will ultimately take me back to (1.) above. So I will leave with the custom FW for now and see what happens. I assume that if the RMA process is successful it's not possible to start the system as there would be no FW installed - is that right?
Worth mentioning that before bailing-out to a spare PVR the faulty PVR had been showing signs of occasional poor reception. Accordingly, I took a feed of the 12V going to the loft preamp and fed it down an unused coax to the lounge so that I could set up a 'scope to monitor it next to the TV. However there was no correlation and the 12V supply was solid. As we've not had any "reception problems" with the spare PVR I now suspect these occasions were signs that the MPeg decoder was struggling and are related to the freeze-and-reboot problem.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
No. RMA just wipes the HDD of any CF stuff, the FW is untouched (a flag is set to stop the install process popping up if the user accesses the web address). The user has to complete RMA by flashing a standard firmware (to wipe the CF from flash). Change of mind can be achieved using the Telnet menu to remove the flag.
I never thought it was, but I don't think it's a software fault either.
As I said before, I don't watch TPTV much but on one occasion I wanted to, it was unwatchable because the HD-FOX repeatedly rebooted, only relieved by getting it switched away from TPTV ASAP after a reboot. But I have successfully recorded from TPTV on occasion, so it seems odds-on favourite there is something about the broadcast stream which can trigger a bug in these units – indeed any unit based on the Broadcomm SoC. It should be possible to run two side by side and have them reboot at the same time, by the same trigger.
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EEPhil
Number 28
Is the HD-Fox connected to the Internet? I mentioned earlier that the "encore" red button might cause a problem. (It's the only addition to the broadcast stream that I can think of.)The red button doesn't show on my Humaxes if there is no Internet. It may not (probably won't) solve the problem, but if it is connected to t'net you could try disconnecting it.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Yes. However, the rapidity of the reboots is not reminiscent of the IPTV crashes we used to get before Humax fixed the firmware.
If the problem should repeat, I'll try that (as a data point).
In London, it's notable that London Live (and other channels on the Local mux) generally fails to rewind in time-shift (probably recording too), stopping with a corrupt image or
This could be connected to the ~45% reported signal strength, even though the quality is showing 100% and BER 0e-6. Regardless of that, the root cause might be some issue in the SoC trick playing firmware or how it's driven by the Humax settop program.
In the tests reported above, how some issue in the SoC DVB-T MPEG decoding might lead to a reboot is not clear. Is it that settop is crashing, or is the SoC resetting itself? With CF it would be possible to distinguish these cases more easily.
In London TPTV is fine: like others apart from Local, its mux is showing > 80% signal strength on a typical box.
channel is scrambled. Skipping back (left arrow) is fine.This could be connected to the ~45% reported signal strength, even though the quality is showing 100% and BER 0e-6. Regardless of that, the root cause might be some issue in the SoC trick playing firmware or how it's driven by the Humax settop program.
In the tests reported above, how some issue in the SoC DVB-T MPEG decoding might lead to a reboot is not clear. Is it that settop is crashing, or is the SoC resetting itself? With CF it would be possible to distinguish these cases more easily.
In London TPTV is fine: like others apart from Local, its mux is showing > 80% signal strength on a typical box.
bottletop
Active Member
If it's not hardware nor software, what else can be the cause?
The only other things I can think of are reception, firmware or transmission issue.
Shouldn't others be able to reproduce the issue/error?
I assume op is receiving from crystal palace (because he gets London Live) but I may be wrong.
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prpr
Well-Known Member
Really?
In what way? See https://hummy.tv/forum/posts/173154/
No.
So it probably is a hardware problem that's causing something else to get upset and crash.
So if it's not hardware and it's not software, then what is it?
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
Thanks for clarifying. Have switched the PVR on again this lunchtime and still behaving itself in this interim state with FW (allegedly) removed from HDD but remaining in flash.
Yes, although we're in Woking we receive from Crystal Palace. Historically (ie since analogue switch-off) reception has been rock-solid. The problem last year which prompted me to try out the CF was due to a faulty smoothing capacitor in the loft aerial amplifier's PSU which affected some muxes and not others.
Well, not an electrolytic capacitor problem at least (which, realistically is all I could change). Generally speaking, other components are orders-of-magnitude more reliable. Also the absence of FW from the HDD cures the fault.
The different behaviours at switch-off/on in steps 2-7 above doesn't inspire confidence.
...yet removing the FW (be it custom or Humax) from the HDD fixes the fault - that's got to be a massive clue, surely. Is there a downside to leaving the PVR like this (with no FW on the HDD)?
prpr
Well-Known Member
You said not...
I don't know who's more confused, you or me.
As far as I can tell, you've had the problem both with standard FW, and with Custom FW.
And please don't call the stuff on the disk "FW" as that just confuses the issue. Firmware is the stuff in the "read-only" flash. Stuff on the disk is "packages" or "software".
It seems counter-productive to run with these mixed environments. I don't know what you're trying to prove.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
This. Something the "dodgy" channels are doing (occasionally) which the mainstream channels do not, which is not accounted for in the decoding hardware. That makes it a design fault rather than a hardware failure.
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
No confusion here. You quoted from #60 which was the status as at Saturday afternoon when I made the decision not to swap the power boards and before I installed the CF on the faulty PVR to allow me to try the RMA process. What does enabling the RMA process under Diagnostics/set RMA mode actually do? The fault cleared once this had been done, ie before a restart of the PVR.
Correct - although not with the latter when it is present in flash only.
Thanks for the steer on terminology.
The working spare PVR is being used during normal viewing hours so that we avoid the fault and likely-related occasional picture break-up problems (on all services) we had been experiencing. Outside these hours the faulty PVR is being used for watching stuff recorded before the switch (playback unaffected) and for investigations such as those this morning (the seven steps above).
bottletop
Active Member
I think it's too early to say that for certain because the following suggests it may be a reception issue..
(also if it's a transmission issue then all other HDR owners receiving Crystal Palace should have the same issue - or at least be able to reproduce the same symptoms/errors.)
@Newcoppiceman - If you're sure it's a transmission issue, why not try appealing for help from other owners eg something like
Code:
Fellow HDR owners (especially those the Crystal Palace reception area).
Please can you help test my theory out to see if the following actions will cause a crash or reboot.
So to test my theory please try this on Friday the 13th
Leave HDR on BBC 1 (LCN 1)
Schedule reminder 1 for BBC 2 (LCN 2) date/time
Schedule reminder 2 for ITV2 (LCN 3) date/time
Schedule reminder 3 for Chan4 (LCN 4) date/time
If it behaves as expected, they it may crash/reboot after reminder 2
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OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
I think not, as we've not had this problem with the spare PVR. This has been in use for some two weeks now during the evenings which is when we used to get maybe a couple of instances of picture break-up each night when on the faulty PVR - and then only recently (previous few weeks). I initially thought we might be having reception problems, which is why I set up the monitoring of the preamp 12V supply - but it's fine. Given that historically reception in this location (and on the faulty PVR) has been fine I'm now minded to think these were connected to the fault.
The PVRs are being swapped by direct substitution as per the attached. It's curious how the nature of the faulty PVR's misdemeanours have changed since the CF was first installed back in November, becoming more serious and predictable in recent weeks. Investigations continue, but that the fault goes when the FW is in flash only is a significant step forward.
Attachments
That is exactly how the standard firmware works as I understand it with all the software in flash RAM. The custom firmware must put some some software on the HDD because there is not enough storage on the motherboard.
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
Just to round-off today's observations, after I posted #75, ie around 4.10pm I switched the PVR on again; again it said ENTERING, RMA, MODE - but this time the fault had returned; TPTV and Sky News both causing freeze-and-reboots after about a minute of moving pictures. Fault hadn't been present at lunchtime (#70). Will try a system flush before installing Humax FW.
bottletop
Active Member
Rather than feed us the (perceived) troublesome TV broadcasts/transmissions in dribs and drabs, why not just list the channels you're having trouble with -
Eg is it London Live, TPTV and now Sky News?
What about the other Sky channels like Sky Mix, Sky Arts?
What about the Channel 5 ones like 5USA, 5+1 etc?
What about the Channel 4 ones like More 4 and the +1 variations?
I understand the main BBC ones are ok, did that include BBC 3 and BBC 4, CBBC etc?
Eg the +1 channels are usually lower quality than the original ones.
I have a feeling you'll discover more troublesome channels soon if you can try a good few more...
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prpr
Well-Known Member
It creates a zero byte flag file in oe of the read/write flash filesystems. That's it.
It's difficult to see how this can have any bearing. You could try creating any old file of your own in /var/lib/humax_backup instead.
Well that should get rid of any filesystem corruption in the flash.
OP
Newcoppiceman
Active Member
I did think about creating a list of affected/unaffected channels when the fault is present (maybe this will reveal something); TPTV and Sky News are reliable indicators however and since Saturday, when I first tried the RMA process and chased the fault away (for the first time in weeks) I've tried capitalising on that. If the system flush doesn't work, I'll construct the list.