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FVP-5000T- Time Shifted Recording stops at program end

crvdale

New Member
Just bought an FVP-5000 and have an issue with how the Time Shifted feature works. I set a 30 minute program to record but then after 10 minutes decide to watch it. I start the recording from the beginning (so it is now time shifted by 10 mins). When the live program end time is reached the recording stops and live TV is displayed. I then have to go back into recordings, find it and start playing again from where I left off (does that make sense?). I remember one of my earlier models of Humax PVR's did this but later models (including my Fox T2) had this fixed so the recording just continued. Have Humax gone backwards with the software of the FVP-5000 or am I missing something in how I'm using it?
 

Member 7823

Member
Thats been an issue for a while. Mentioned it in my 2 cents thread. Your lucky you recorded the end of the program because essentially, pause TV simply does not, never has worked. The play back simply quits back to live when the live program ends, so you never get to see the end

Just bought an FVP-5000 and have an issue with how the Time Shifted feature works. I set a 30 minute program to record but then after 10 minutes decide to watch it. I start the recording from the beginning (so it is now time shifted by 10 mins). When the live program end time is reached the recording stops and live TV is displayed. I then have to go back into recordings, find it and start playing again from where I left off (does that make sense?). I remember one of my earlier models of Humax PVR's did this but later models (including my Fox T2) had this fixed so the recording just continued. Have Humax gone backwards with the software of the FVP-5000 or am I missing something in how I'm using it?
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Just bought an FVP-5000 and have an issue with how the Time Shifted feature works. I set a 30 minute program to record but then after 10 minutes decide to watch it. I start the recording from the beginning (so it is now time shifted by 10 mins). When the live program end time is reached the recording stops and live TV is displayed. I then have to go back into recordings, find it and start playing again from where I left off (does that make sense?). I remember one of my earlier models of Humax PVR's did this but later models (including my Fox T2) had this fixed so the recording just continued. Have Humax gone backwards with the software of the FVP-5000 or am I missing something in how I'm using it?

Try this - instead of setting a recording set a watch reservation which ensures the box is tuned to the channel at the time the programme starts. After say 10 mins press the instant record button. Find the recording and watch this and avoid skipping past the end of the buffer by using the forward skip key. This will stop working if a forward skip would return to live TV. I always watch ITV recordings about 15 mins after a programme has started using the forward skip keys I have never missed the end.
 

Member 7823

Member
What's the benefit of setting a watch reservation, waiting 5 minutes, pressing record OVER just setting a recording in the first place??????
Bizarre unless I've mixing something
And the question remains. Pause TV simply does not work and your work around is totally bizarre

Try this - instead of setting a recording set a watch reservation which ensures the box is tuned to the channel at the time the programme starts. After say 10 mins press the instant record button. Find the recording and watch this and avoid skipping past the end of the buffer by using the forward skip key. This will stop working if a forward skip would return to live TV. I always watch ITV recordings about 15 mins after a programme has started using the forward skip keys I have never missed the end.
 
OP
C

crvdale

New Member
Thanks! This "feature" and other wonderful backward steps I've discovered in this box are annoying. Have Humax actually done anything about rectifying them in future software releases or are we stuck with them?
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
What's the benefit of setting a watch reservation, waiting 5 minutes, pressing record OVER just setting a recording in the first place??????
Bizarre unless I've mixing something
And the question remains. Pause TV simply does not work and your work around is totally bizarre

It wasn't a workaround, merely checking if your box works as it should.

Without doing this there is no way to guarantee which programme will be in the time shift buffer

Your recording could be scheduled to use tuner 2 on say BBC 1 and tuner 1 is currently showing say ITV.

The reservation forces the box to buffer the channel we are trying to test.

I wish I hadn't bothered,.
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
I wasn't expecting you to use the view reservation it was an attempt to explain why it happens, it's not a bug the same thing happens on a HDR-1000S simply because of the instant recording capability.


I have just set a recording for Ainsley Herriot ITV1 HD today 11:30. I started watching the recording 10 mins after it started and paused playback for 18 mins then skipped forward to about 15 mins from the end and leaving it till the programme has finished. I expect to be able to watch the end in 15 mins or so.

The problem you describe only happens if you are recording the programme and either try viewing the programme from the time shift buffer or you watch the recording and skip over the current end of the recorded content and go back to live viewing and continuing viewing from the time shift buffer.

It's not a bug at all, it's required to provide instant recording of the complete programme once it has started. To do this the time shift buffer file pointers are reset to reflect the start of the next programme. This means if you press the instant recording button the current programme will be recorded from it's beginning to the end.

You can actually record up to 4 at the same time depending on Mux. eg Set two recordings from say BBC1-HD and BBC2-HD and set a view say on Channel 4 HD. Once one of the two actual recordings finishes you can record the full Channel 4 HD programme just by pressing the instant record button.

As expected I was able to watch the complete programme which stopped in the ad break between the end and the start of the next programme. I just recorded the next programme (Best Bakes Ever) by simply pressing the record button. I have an ongoing recording that started at 12:25

So not a bug at all just operator error.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
...or an unintuitive interface leading to an incorrect expectation.

Just because something doesn't work as you might expect it to (without reading the manual) doesn't make it a bug. It could be considered poor design, but not a bug.

The fact is: there are similar annoyances with HDR-FOX (but not identical ones). On that, if you decide to instant-record a programme you are watching, the recording starts at the current time. Should you want to record the whole programme from the start, you have to wind back through the TSR to the point you want to start and then press record (assuming you have been on that channel from the start). I would argue that is intuitive.

What is less intuitive is that having pressed record, the damn thing skips to the live broadcast point - which you wouldn't have wanted if you were already watching timeshifted and decided to record the end of the programme for later. Yes, this may well be necessary due to the design of the TSR etc, but is nonetheless not ideal.

Similarly, if you are watching a channel timeshifted, and then (live) a scheduled recording on the same channel starts, play resumes live and there's no way back to the timeshifted stuff so you miss the end of the programme you were watching. Again, probably an unavoidable consequence of the way things are implemented, but if the unit had been deliberately designed to be absolutely intuitive this would have been considered a defect (but the HDR-FOX would have ended up priced out of the market, and late to market by missing DSO).

In the case of the 5000T, they seem to have addressed one problem and introduced another as a byproduct (and by consequence of the limitations). I suggest the result is less intuitive rather than more.

So there you go. The point is to work out what the compromises are, and learn ways to avoid them or live with them... and each product requires a new learning cycle which is why we like to stick to what we've got. Few products are perfect, any that are perfect are usually very expensive, and the only way to find the perfect product is to buy them all or rely on reviews and hope the reviewer isn't biased and is as picky as you (and has spent long enough looking for faults - which makes the review untopical).
 

Member 7823

Member
There have been about 3 software updates and this hasn't been fixed. I don't see them ever fixing it. I'm not sure whether it only happens when the 3 tuners are all recording but it's unreliable so you really need to just record any program you want to see to guarantee seeing the ending

Thanks! This "feature" and other wonderful backward steps I've discovered in this box are annoying. Have Humax actually done anything about rectifying them in future software releases or are we stuck with them?
 

Member 7823

Member
That's ridiculous of course it's a bug.Pause TV simply does not work. and posting an explanation of the bug, or a totally bizarre workaround for the bug, does not stop it being a bug. and it's not mitigated either by the fact that another Humax model does not work in the same way. PAUSE TV SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK AND THAT IS A BUG and it needs fixing and it won't be fixed. A warning to any Humax users out there do not use Pause TV it does not work and it sounds like it does not work on more than one model. Just RECORD the program if you need to see the end of it

.... it was an attempt to explain why it happens, it's not a bug the same thing.....
 

EEPhil

Number 28
The fact is: there are similar annoyances with HDR-FOX (but not identical ones). On that, if you decide to instant-record a programme you are watching, the recording starts at the current time. Should you want to record the whole programme from the start, you have to wind back through the TSR to the point you want to start and then press record (assuming you have been on that channel from the start). I would argue that is intuitive.

What is less intuitive is that having pressed record, the damn thing skips to the live broadcast point - which you wouldn't have wanted if you were already watching timeshifted and decided to record the end of the programme for later. Yes, this may well be necessary due to the design of the TSR etc, but is nonetheless not ideal.
This must be a Humax "feature", not a bug. The 2000T behaves in the same manner.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
That's ridiculous of course it's a bug.
Show me where it isn't performing according to the manual. It ain't a bug if the behavior is a consequence of the design.

Let's suppose you drive a car across a level crossing, see the rails and think "I'll turn left here and get to my destination that way", then find the car doesn't work very well on the rails. Is that a bug, or just that it wasn't designed to do that?

A feature is not a bug. No amount of euphemistically calling a bug a 'feature' makes a feature the same as a bug. A bug is faulty implementation of the design resulting in malfunction that is out-of-specification. A feature is behaviour consequential to the design - and as what we are talking about here is (most likely) due to design limitations, and was never promised to work any other way, it ain't a bug and ain't ever going to be "fixed" to your liking.

I'll take it you are not an engineer and have never worked in product development of any kind. If you had, you would know this kind of thing.
 
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grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
The only way to fix this is remove the instant record capability. As the issue is easily avoided that at least for me and I suspect most sensible owners would be a definite downgrade. The latter is a feature that I use quite a lot.

For heavens sake I did exactly what the op asked, made a recording selected playback of the recording and did not lose the end by simply being aware while viewing an ongoing recording to not go past the end of the currently recorded content. If you do the content is not coming from the recording rather the time shift buffer file (which I have already said is going to get reset when the next programme starts. By using the forward skip when near the end of the currently recorded content, the forward skip capability (default +2 mins) stops you dropping back to buffer playback as it simply ignores the command when less than 2 minutes of the current recording file is available.

I generally watch all recordings in this way especially if ITV on both the 5000T and the G2 Freesat HDR-1000S. I like to leave ITV recordings to gather 15 mins or so of recording time so you can skip the ads. Viewing in this way for many ITV recordings by skipping the ads you finish viewing about the same time as the programme finishes. It's never been a problem to me.

In fact the way it works is eminently sensible, because the issue only happens if you are recording the content. If you lose the end because you don't understand how it works, you still have the recording to view.

Shame though Humax dropped the instant jump to a time code facility by simply tapping in the time code. This allows you to skip to the right point in seconds.
 
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Member 7823

Member
Absurd!! The key feature of all PVRs is to pause/shift live TV. Alllllllll other brands of PVR manage to do it. Only Humax can't manage it, and if it's apparent on more than one model then that makes them incompetent. For the sake of anyone buying Humax just record the program if you need to see the end.

The only way to fix this is remove the instant record capability. .....
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
The key feature of all PVRs is to pause/shift live TV.
What do you mean the key feature? Personal Video Recorder

I think you are muddling what you think it should do (perfectly) with what it has been designed to do. And the fact is, as long as nothing else is going on concurrently, it does do that.

I've told you before: if you can find a product that performs better, why aren't you using it?
 

Trev

The Dumb One
If I nip out for a fag, say 10 mins, I put the box into 'pause' I then come back in to watch the rest of the programme. I would not expect the programme that I had paused switch back to live when the live transmission ends, thus missing the end of my televisual pleasure .
Neither my Samsung or LG TVs do that. I can just resume watching to the end of the programme after pressing the 'Pause' button, just like any normal person would expect it to behave.
If it doesn't behave like that, it is 100% not intuitive and definitely a crap design bug that Humax seem to have worked into their boxes and seem incapable of fixing. Surely after all this time they cannot be unaware of the problem.

So stop trying to defend their crap design BH. :disagree:
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Neither my Samsung or LG TVs do that. I can just resume watching to the end of the programme after pressing the 'Pause' button, just like any normal person would expect it to behave.
Are you also using them to record? On a HDR-FOX, TSR only stops working if recording takes over. If you are not using your TVs to record, the comparison is invalid.

I'm not defending crap design, but until you've tried to fit a quart into a pint pot you're not qualified to comment on whether a budget PVR should be able to tick all the boxes on the wish list. Don't you think any engineer would have wanted to make that work in all circumstances? My conclusion is that they were forced to compromise: either make TSR work under some circumstances according to hardware limitations, or leave it out.

I haven't said this is not less than desirable, I am only pointing out it is not a bug (same as GT). I also think the 5000T behaviour is less intuitive than the HDR-FOX.

As consumers, if a unit works as advertised we have no grounds for complaint. If you don't like it, vote with your feet (and use Richer Sounds no-quibble returns policy).
 
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grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Trev does your LG or Panasonic if you see a programme that has already started and you fancy watching all of it record the complete programme from the beginning at a single button push ? It's only the box maintaining the time shift buffer so that the start pointer is maintained to point to the last started programme that makes this work. The HDR-FOX-T2 is slightly different in that you have to manually back up the time shift buffer to the point point you want to create a recording from. Of course if you are viewing content from the time shift buffer rather than the recording after the programme completes the reset causes the loss of the end.
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Absurd!! The key feature of all PVRs is to pause/shift live TV. Alllllllll other brands of PVR manage to do it. Only Humax can't manage it, and if it's apparent on more than one model then that makes them incompetent. For the sake of anyone buying Humax just record the program if you need to see the end.

Don't you ever read and understand anything ? It's recording the programme and then using the time shift buffer to view rather than the actual recording, that creates the issue. I do what you want dozens of times every week and never lose the end.
 
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