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How bad is the BBC3/4 recording problem?

Hi guys,
I'm using the slow epg version of the CS at the moment but it is very slow. The issue for me with the other versions is the recording of BBC3/4, so how bad is it now that 3 has gone anyway? Which version are you all using?
Is it ok to load a different version over the top of my current version?

Obviously not terribly important but I have come across a bug in the mux details the CS displays. It claims my home digital modulators are T2 presumably because they carry a 1080i channel. However, it is most definitely a T1 mux.

Thanks guys.

Bob.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I'm using the slow epg version of the CS at the moment but it is very slow.
I hope you don't think it is the "CS" (Custom Firmware) that is the cause of the slowness (which is what your text implies and could mislead newcomers reading it) - that is all down to the Humax firmware underneath it. The different versions are all the same CF added to the different revisions of standard firmware according to your preferences. Personally, I've never noticed the EPG being particularly slow, perhaps I'm more prepared to be patient.

See Things Every... (click) section 1, and the wiki HERE (click).

The issue for me with the other versions is the recording of BBC3/4, so how bad is it now that 3 has gone anyway?
I am not aware there is an ongoing problem. We had a fix for it, when it was a problem.

Is it ok to load a different version over the top of my current version?
Yes. What makes you believe otherwise? All you will be doing is replacing one firmware image in Flash with another.

I have come across a bug in the mux details the CS displays. It claims my home digital modulators are T2 presumably because they carry a 1080i channel. However, it is most definitely a T1 mux.
This, again, is nothing to do with the CF and is not a bug in the CF. The information WebIF >> Diagnostics >> Mux Info displays is obtained directly from the tuning database used to program the hardware for receiving the required multiplex, which is generated when the user performs a retune operation. If the database says the transmission on a particular UHF channel number is encoded DVB-T2, and yet the transmission is actually encoded DVB-T, it is difficult to see how any valid data would make it out of the decoder.

You can check this for yourself. On the SUI (standard user interface - ie the TV screen and HDR-FOX remote control handset: Menu >> Settings >> Installation >> Manual Search, then select the UHF channel number for your modulator and select Transmission = DVB-T. If it is indeed DVB-T, there will be a signal showing up on the strength and quality bars. If there is no signal, change Transmission to DVB-T2. You will then have a definitive answer (no need to actually commit a retune).
 
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OP
M

mightyoakbob

Member
I hope you don't think it is the "CS" (Custom Firmware) that is the cause of the slowness (which is what your text implies and could mislead newcomers reading it) - that is all down to the Humax firmware underneath it. The different versions are all the same CF added to the different revisions of standard firmware according to your preferences.
Yes I knew that. However, the various faults are loaded with different versions of the CS even though the CS itself is not at fault.
Why am I having to defend asking a question?

Personally, I've never noticed the EPG being particularly slow, perhaps I'm more prepared to be patient.
And another implied criticism.
I find it very slow.

I am not aware there is an ongoing problem. We had a fix for it, when it was a problem.
Which begs the question then, why are two versions of the CS (combined downloads for the pedantic) labelled as having BBC3/4 issues?

Yes. What makes you believe otherwise? All you will be doing is replacing one firmware image in Flash with another.
Nothing makes me think otherwise, I didn't know so I asked. It seems possible to me that it may be the case that additional packages link into a specific parts of the CS/OS and changing this means these packages have to be re-installed.

This, again, is nothing to do with the CF and is not a bug in the CF. The information WebIF >> Diagnostics >> Mux Info displays is obtained directly from the tuning database used to program the hardware for receiving the required multiplex, which is generated when the user performs a retune operation. If the database says the transmission on a particular UHF channel number is encoded DVB-T2, and yet the transmission is actually encoded DVB-T, it is difficult to see how any valid data would make it out of the decoder.
Well I'm very sorry but that cannot be correct. I am 100% certain the modulators are T1. Firstly they tune on the first pass on the Humax retune and not the second, they only appear on T1 on the humax and I have T1 TV that works fine with the modulator and damn it, it says T1 on the modulator box. So something in the packages or the CS is wrong! As must be your understanding.

You can check this for yourself. On the SUI (standard user interface - ie the TV screen and HDR-FOX remote control handset: Menu >> Settings >> Installation >> Manual Search, then select the UHF channel number for your modulator and select Transmission = DVB-T. If it is indeed DVB-T, there will be a signal showing up on the strength and quality bars. If there is no signal, change Transmission to DVB-T2. You will then have a definitive answer (no need to actually commit a retune).
Done this many times. The modulators are T1 yet the package says it is T2 and is wrong.

Sorry to be firm but I do find myself wondering if you're here because you like to help people or you get a kick out of being aggressive and ripping into people who ask sensible questions.

Bob.
 
OP
M

mightyoakbob

Member
Have you tried trimming the list of scheduled recordings to remove the series that have finished? For me that can bring a perceptible improvement in performance. I take that you are aware of the shortcut keys for navigating through the guide?
Thank you for the trimming suggestion, I'll give it a try.
No I don't know about the shortcuts. I've googled without success, would you advise or point me at a reference please.

Thanks.

Bob.
 

sceptic

Forum Supporter
As Martin mentioned I would definitely trim your finished scheduled recording list. This makes a big difference to EPG navigation speed for me. I must look to see if there is a way to do this automatically via a Sweeper rule perhaps...
 
OP
M

mightyoakbob

Member
As Martin mentioned I would definitely trim your finished scheduled recording list. This makes a big difference to EPG navigation speed for me. I must look to see if there is a way to do this automatically via a Sweeper rule perhaps...
Thanks for that.

Bob.
 

/df

Active Member
In this post we learn that the slow EPG, if experienced, is a side-effect of fixing other (Humax) firmware bugs.

However, rather than living with the older version, as Humax are reported to have suggested elsewhere, OP could try the latest firmware (Humax, and CF as well, but that belongs in the other forum) and take @Andy Grey's advice. Later in that thread, or indeed in the manual, you can learn about the EPG shortcut keys: apart from the cursor buttons, OK, Info and the colour buttons, you can use P+/- and the |<<, <<,>>,>>| buttons.

Personally I've never noticed a particular problem with the EPG on an otherwise healthy machine but then I always use a favourite list (albeit ~100 items) and never have more than a handful of expired recording schedules.
 
OP
M

mightyoakbob

Member
In this post we learn that the slow EPG, if experienced, is a side-effect of fixing other (Humax) firmware bugs.

However, rather than living with the older version, as Humax are reported to have suggested elsewhere, OP could try the latest firmware (Humax, and CF as well, but that belongs in the other forum) and take @Andy Grey's advice. Later in that thread, or indeed in the manual, you can learn about the EPG shortcut keys: apart from the cursor buttons, OK, Info and the colour buttons, you can use P+/- and the |<<, <<,>>,>>| buttons.

Personally I've never noticed a particular problem with the EPG on an otherwise healthy machine but then I always use a favourite list (albeit ~100 items) and never have more than a handful of expired recording schedules.
Thank you.
Bob.
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
The modulators are T1 yet the package says it is T2 and is wrong.
Post a zipped copy of your tuning database and somebody may take a look. If you don't, then nobody can guess.

What does CS stand for in your world anyway?
Why can't you quote actual version numbers of firnwares instead of meaningless terms like "the slow epg version". Be precise, not vague.
Phrases like "it is very slow" convey almost no useful information - this is why you get the responses you do from people.
Slowness is subjective.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Right, let me unpick this.

And another implied criticism.
Unfair comment. I explained my own experience and a potential reason for it. I did not say you are impatient, and the "slowness" has been reported before so I am aware of it.

Sorry to be firm but I do find myself wondering if you're here because you like to help people or you get a kick out of being aggressive and ripping into people who ask sensible questions.
You can be as firm as you like, I am perfectly capable of defending myself and explain every detail of why I might write something. Please re-read your own post:
I'm using the slow epg version of the CS at the moment but it is very slow.
...do you not agree that anybody new reading that could easily take that to mean it is the CF itself that is slow? (Your unconventional use of "CS" notwithstanding - at least you could gen up on the standard jargon* around here instead of introducing more.) I will robustly defend the custom firmware from unwarranted criticism.

As to whether (or not) I like to help people, you are clearly not familiar with just how much information I have contributed. What irks is somebody claiming more knowledge than they should.

It seems possible to me that it may be the case that additional packages link into a specific parts of the CS/OS and changing this means these packages have to be re-installed.
That's a different question, not the one you asked. Yes, some packages will need to be patched up after a firmware re-install, but that's easily taken care of with a fix-flash-packages.

Historically, the early implementations of the CF required a standard firmware to be loaded first (to flush the previously installed CF), and then the CF version appropriate to that standard firmware to be added. How was I to know that's not what you were referring to? I asked why you thought that might be the case because all the instructions now say you don't need to any more, so if you were getting the wrong information we need to know where from so it can be put right.

You have unnecessarily interpreted an honest request for information as being hostile.

Why am I having to defend asking a question?
Because asking the question reveals lack of background reading. Time hasn't been spent writing all this up (not just by me) for people to ignore.

why are two versions of the CS (combined downloads for the pedantic) labelled as having BBC3/4 issues?
Because, at the time, there was. There is no guarantee the interpretation you are placing on it is not out of date, and you could find out one way or the other by researching historical posts about the issue on this forum. Nobody here calls it "CS"*, and you need to be very clear what is in the CF domain and what the Humax firmware is responsible for.

I note that, although several people have chipped in on the "slow EPG" problem, nobody has confirmed there remains an issue recording from BBC FOUR.

Done this many times.
Am I supposed to know that?

The modulators are T1 yet the package says it is T2 and is wrong.
Are you saying that the test I proposed only shows signal if you select DVB-T (note: "T1" is not an acceptable abbreviation) not DVB-T2, and yet the WebIF diagnostics show it as DVB-T2? Some evidence would be nice, eg a photo of the on-screen signal detection and a screenshot of the diagnostics listing.

My reason for being sceptical is that the demodulator cannot work if it has the wrong setting, and I can see no mechanism that would present the database entry incorrectly on the diagnostics listing. Perhaps a code expert can confirm this. Another point to note is that the vast majority of us do not have the facilities required to reproduce your results, and (scientifically) unreproducible results are all but worthless. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, like this for example:
Post a zipped copy of your tuning database

So, rather than getting all hoity-toity, perhaps it would have been better to assume I had a reason for my post and thought about it instead of firing off a BH-bashing retort (even if it is fashionable at the moment).

* See the Glossary link in my signature panel.
 
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Trev

The Dumb One
@mightyoakbob
I have a DVB-T modulator. Where exactly are you reading the fact that your system thinks it's a DVB-T2 mod, and I'll have a look at mine to see if I can confirm/deny that fact.
I can't be bothered to wade through all the sniping to find out.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Where exactly are you reading the fact that your system thinks it's a DVB-T2 mod
The information WebIF >> Diagnostics >> Mux Info displays is obtained directly from the tuning database used to program the hardware for receiving the required multiplex...

...On the SUI (standard user interface - ie the TV screen and HDR-FOX remote control handset: Menu >> Settings >> Installation >> Manual Search, then select the UHF channel number for your modulator and select Transmission = DVB-T. If it is indeed DVB-T, there will be a signal showing up on the strength and quality bars. If there is no signal, change Transmission to DVB-T2. You will then have a definitive answer (no need to actually commit a retune).
 

Trev

The Dumb One
Thanks for that both, and the BH tuning tip (I don't already have it tuned on my HDR T2 because it's the HDMI O/P of the HDR T2 that it is modulating).
But I want to know exactly (no if's, but's or presumably's) how the OP did it so that I can replicate his test.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
The issue for me with the other versions is the recording of BBC3/4, so how bad is it now that 3 has gone anyway? Which version are you all using?
... it is most definitely a T1 mux.
The issue is with the BBC part time HD channels BBC4 HD, CBBC HD and Cbeebies HD.
The issue is not with the SD version of BBC 4.

If the issue does occur it is now recoverable. I seem to remember that at one point part of one of the decrypt processes would use badnts to recover but I can't remember the details.

I'm using the slow epg version of the CS at the moment but it is very slow.
The navigation buttons most obviously impacted are the ones on the silver ring surrounding the OK button. Have you tried avoiding hem and getting into the habit of using the other navigation buttons mentioned earlier instead?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Thanks for that both, and the BH tuning tip (I don't already have it tuned on my HDR T2 because it's the HDMI O/P of the HDR T2 that it is modulating).
But I want to know exactly (no if's, but's or presumably's) how the OP did it so that I can replicate his test.
If you are willing to help resolve this, it doesn't matter how the OP came to his conclusion. You can proceed independently: confirm whether your DVB modulator is correctly displayed (DVB-T v DVB-T2) in the manner I have detailed above (which will require that you tune it, in order to get the Mux Info diagnostics). If you find a disparity, you have confirmed a bug.

Only if you find no disparity does a new question arise: is your modulator the identical model as the OP's? If so, it is then up to the OP to explain where he is getting his data - not up to us to confirm it until then.

Note that this has brewed up as the result of an off-topic remark in the first post. I wish posters would confine their topics to one subject at a time!
 
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Trev

The Dumb One
Ok. I'll get onto it later.
Just realised that I don't have the same mod.
I got one of THESE (Edision) but had problems with it so returned it and got one of THESE (Technomate) which just worked out of the box.
I must get round to switching its LCN to 8 sometime as I have 'moved' the default CH800 which it is set to by default to CH8 on my TVs for convenience (fewer button presses) but of course it reverts to 800 on a TV re-tune necessitating a 'move' to 8 all over again.
 

af123

Administrator
Staff member
Well this seems to have wandered a bit!

I suspect that the OP was originally looking at

https://wiki.hummy.tv/wiki/Which_Version

which gives the pros and cons of the different available versions and still notes the BBC3/4 recording issue for the older underlying firmware versions.

I have no idea if this problem (zero-byte .nts files) still happens, does anyone else? There's no reason to think that it wouldn't since it required a firmware fix from Humax which is only in 1.03.xx. I run the latest version everywhere so wouldn't have seen this.

Which version are you all using?
You can add a poll to this thread and let people vote, but of the devices that are registered with remote scheduling, 92.6% of them are using 1.03.xx, 6% are using 1.02.28+ and the remainder are on 1.02.20
 
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