Recording of non-freesat mode channels

#1
I have tried to record some FTA HD channels using the non-freesat mode on my Foxsat HDRs, to transfer to my PC for editing etc. I have Raydons firmware installed (latest) and Samba installed to copy via windows drive-mapping.

When I make a very short test recording (eg BBC1HD) of about one minute or so, It displays and plays OK in the Foxsat, but when I try and find the recording all I get is two files, 0.ts and 0.nts, and not titled as the programme like the Freesat recordings are BUT the TS file for the one minute duration is ENORMOUS. Usually at least 4GB. And when I try and play this in VLC it won't. So what am I doing wrong? Or is it something to do with Raydons firmware? I can see and copy and play any recordings done via the Freesat mode by this transfer method to my PC but non-freesat mode throws up the above. Any advice please?
 
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barrykap

New Member
#2
Ps. Another bad thing I have discovered about non-freesat mode is they do not handle subtitles. This is essential to me as I am deaf. Why on earth don't they include display of subtitles? As the Freesat mode does. Tragic.
 
#3
I have never tried to record in non-Freesat more so my comments are generic.

0.ts is the cyclic buffer for live recording that always runs, this is the one that enables you to pause a live program. This cannot be played on anything. This file builds up to something like 18GB, then stays on that size because it's cyclical.

Where did you find the 1 minute recording saved in the Media List on the box? Could it be that non-Freesat recordings are saved with non-ASCII characters in the file name that prevents them from being exposed over SMB or in a location that isn't exposed in SMB?

Isn't there a severe limitation with EPG in non-Freesat mode, which makes it difficult to schedule recordings?

Not sure about subtitles.
 
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barrykap

New Member
#4
Hi

Thanks for that info. I was not aware of that and clears things up a bit. But doesn't explain why I don't get a 'transferable' file in non-freesat mode. Perhaps it is not permitted in that mode? But all this is irrelevant if it won't even retain subtitles in it's own non-freesat recordings (even when played back on the Foxsat). So I am looking elsewhere now. I am currently trying a Vu-Solo satbox which allows recording of HD contemt AND subtitles and gives me a nice TS file to export to my PC for further editing etc. Thanks ayway for trying help.
 
#6
To record in non-freesat mode without encryption you have to enter non-freesat mode and re-boot back into non-freesat mode. If you then record it will not be encrypted. As already said you have to make the recording longer than 60 seconds.

In any case the custom firmware together with Nowsters Patch makes this completely redundant. With the custom firmware installed plus the ftp package a tiny patch to the OS removes the encryption on recording for Freesat recordings. From that point all HD recordings have no encryption. With a DLNA/UpNp server package you can view both HD and SD on other kit on your network. In fact viewing Foxsat-HDR recordings on a G2 Freesat box improves HD picture quality no end.
 
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barrykap

New Member
#7
Thanks for the info. To be honest I am not sure how long the short tests were but I would guess less than a minute. However as explained even if it all worked now it is not to my requirments as I need also to retain/record subtitles and as they are not supplied even if played on the foxsat (recorded in non-freesat) then they certainly won't be available if copied to my PC and played via VLC etc. I now have a working system using the Vu Solo so I won't pursue this now. When I get time I may try a longer test recording with the Foxsat just to prove your advice and for my own curiosity. I will post my findings on here then. Many thanks.
 
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barrykap

New Member
#8
OK. To relieve my curiosity I made a 3 minute test recording of BBC2 HD in non-freesat mode. Then using Windows Explorer (drive-mapped) I tried to find the recording. No luck. Nothing at all in any folder on the Foxsat. There was again another '0.TS' which I presume is the 'rolling' general file. But again that would not open. Anyway this is all academic now as I have another solution but thought I would prove it does not record HD channels in non-freesat mode that can be copied. It may be playing back from the 0.TS file it creates. But will not allow anything to be taken away. Back to the Vu. Issue closed. :) Barry
 
#9
Did you reboot the box as posted after entering non-freesat mode ? Subtitles are part of the recorded data stream.If present they will be recorded. I have a couple of blu-ray disks made as a test from my Foxsat-HDR that work fine on my bluray player that were made in non freesat mode (both at the same time). Whether the kit you are using to play unencrypted recordings supports the subtitle format is a different question. I can try replaying a Foxsat-HDR HD recording using my Humax-HDR-1000S box directly over my network.

Here's full details of a HD recording made on a Foxsat-HDR and it's not encrypted. If it was you cannot read any of this data.

General
ID : 2050 (0x802)
Complete name : D:\StrictlyEpisodes\Strictly Come Dancing_20170930_1844.ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 7.68 GiB
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 8 699 kb/s
FileExtension_Invalid : m2ts mts ssif
Video
ID : 5400 (0x1518)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames : 4 frames
Format settings, GOP : M=8, N=24
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Bit rate : 7 893 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 FPS
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan type, store method : Interleaved fields
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.152
Stream size : 6.96 GiB (91%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709
Audio #1
ID : 5401 (0x1519)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate : 31.250 FPS (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1 s 156 ms
Stream size : 173 MiB (2%)
Language : English
Service kind : Complete Main
Audio #2
ID : 5402 (0x151A)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 256 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 kHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1 s 96 ms
Stream size : 231 MiB (3%)
Language : nar
Text
ID : 5404 (0x151C)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : DVB Subtitle
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 2 h 6 min
Delay relative to video : 5 s 648 ms
Language : English

Other
ID : 5403 (0x151B)-888
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Format : Teletext
Language : English
Menu
ID : 260 (0x104)
Menu ID : 6941 (0x1B1D)
Duration : 2 h 6 min
List : 5400 (0x1518) (AVC) / 5402 (0x151A) (MPEG Audio, nar) / 5404 (0x151C) (DVB Subtitle, English) / 5403 (0x151B)-888 (Teletext, en) / 5401 (0x1519) (AC-3, English) / 2323 (0x913) () / 2322 (0x912) () / 2321 (0x911) () / 2330 (0x91A) () / 2329 (0x919) () / 3844 (0xF04) () / 3843 (0xF03) () / 3842 (0xF02) () / 3841 (0xF01) () / 3840 (0xF00) () / 3849 (0xF09) () / 3847 (0xF07) () / 3846 (0xF06) ()
Language : / nar / English / English / English
 
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barrykap

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#10
Yes I did reboot and yes I can see subtitles on the recordings played back on the Foxsat now, BUT, this is the main issue, I still cannot find the recordings I do on the Foxsat in non-freesat mode via drive-mapping in Window Explorer. I have trawled through every folder on the Foxsat but there is no file associated with any non-freesat recordings (except this '0.TS' file). Yet they can be seen in the media listing on the Foxsat and can be played back from there OK. Really weird. So how did you access that info? Did you see a dedicated non-freesat file after recording? I too can play any Freesat unencrypted recordings direct from the Foxsat over my network, just to confirm. So it is not my player causing any problems. I just can't find the bleeding non-freesat file to play it! :)
 
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#11
Yes I did reboot and yes I can see subtitles on the recordings played back on the Foxsat now, BUT, this is the main issue, I still cannot find the recordings I do on the Foxsat in non-freesat mode via drive-mapping in Window Explorer. I have trawled through every folder on the Foxsat but there is no file associated with any non-freesat recordings (except this '0.TS' file). Yet they can be seen in the media listing on the Foxsat and can be played back from there OK. Really weird. So how did you access that info? Did you see a dedicated non-freesat file after recording? I too can play any Freesat unencrypted recordings direct from the Foxsat over my network, just to confirm. So it is not my player causing any problems. I just can't find the bleeding non-freesat file to play it! :)
As I explained on my original post, it's been years since I used non freesat to record HD as I have the custom firmware and nowsters patch which means no need to use non-freesat (The CF is available from AV forums). Did you try a search for *.ts in Windows explorer. Just remembered something, the recordings have a unusual character in the filename that hides them from Windows (you should be able to copy to usb though and rename to a suitable name. You need to install the CF and use it to remove the odd character or better still use ftp to install nowsters patch which means you can record series etc and all HD is usable, with normal names.

Bingo - February 2011
/forum/topic/royal-wedding-recordings

Forum software deletes links. Use the above on myHumax
 
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barrykap

New Member
#12
Thanks Graham. I have not done much with Foxsats so am not aware of these quirks etc. I have no idea about Nowster you mention either. Does this release the recorded Enc HD Freesat recordings then? That would be super as I still have a lot of Enc HD recordings I would like to copy over and edit on the PC. But even if it only releases new recordings since the patch it will be handy. I'll have a go at trying find the recent test files using the wildcard filenaming and install newsters patch if I can find it.
 
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barrykap

New Member
#13
Bingo!. I just went ahead and found Newsters patch, installed it and switched back to Freesat mode and all HD new recordings are now unencrypted. So this is really the answer to my original problems. Wish I had known about it before all this hassle I gave you. :) I never lie dnon-freesat mode in the Foxsat anyway a sHabve a number of other non-freesat boxes for non-domestic channels. Cheers. Barry
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#14
Did you install the one with the filename "settop-patch_4.0.9utc_mips.opk"? Note the "utc". The version without the "utc" did not handle switches GMT/BST nicely?
 
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barrykap

New Member
#15
Yes, that was the one. But something strange happening. I installed the patch on my second (Hard Disk empty) Foxsat and it works fine. No ENC against HD recordings, then I decided install it on my first Foxsat (which has about 60% recordings). But this time it didn't work. As all new test recordings I have just made are still encrypted. Yet both machines are virtually identical with the same Raydon 4.1.3 firmware installed.
Not that it is particularly worrying as I will be doing most of the new recordings now on the second machine (the one the patch works on). But a bit puzzling as to why one works and the other doesn't.
 
#16
Yes, that was the one. But something strange happening. I installed the patch on my second (Hard Disk empty) Foxsat and it works fine. No ENC against HD recordings, then I decided install it on my first Foxsat (which has about 60% recordings). But this time it didn't work. As all new test recordings I have just made are still encrypted. Yet both machines are virtually identical with the same Raydon 4.1.3 firmware installed.
Not that it is particularly worrying as I will be doing most of the new recordings now on the second machine (the one the patch works on). But a bit puzzling as to why one works and the other doesn't.
It cannot decrypt previous recordings only new ones. To get at the ones you have already made in non-freesat mode you need to go through the process I linked to from 2011 that the frankly arguably deletion of external links are against any sort of censorship rules on this site prevented you seeing. I posted a link to a thread from another thread from 2011 that detailed exactly how to sort out those as well. After installing the patch you need to reboot to load it. It will work on both machines.

Basically unlike the HDR-FOX-T2 there is no built in way to decrypt exisisting recordings only a small patch to the Humax Settop app that turns off the broadcaster encrypt on recording message that recording in non-freesat mode ignores. The HDR-FOX-T2 provides a way to decrypt existing HD recordings because all recordings are encrypted, by default SD is decrypted on copying to SD. A long time ago some clever members discovered the decrypt on copying to usb was controlled by simple flag in the one of the sidecar files. Changing this allowed HD files on copying to USB to be decrypted. A later development created the capability to decrypt in situ.

On both machines once you have decrypted recordings you can share the content on your home network, though in the case of the Foxsat-HDR there is an additional complication as it needs valid sidecar files to play, The CF has a solution for this as well if you have a NAS server.

Had you provided the info you were running the Custom Firmware I could have provided a telnet command that would install Nowsters Patch in seconds.

You need to become a member of a forum that does not delete links to so called competing forums at the expense of supporting their members, in the case of the Foxsat-HDR it happens to be AV.Forums, (For the HDR-FOX-T2 it's here). TO THE MODERATORS ON THIS FORUM TIME TO CHANGE THIS.

I often link to this forum where it has the best advice from other sites, Why are links to threads on other sites designed to help your members deleted ?

To Barrykap I could have posted links to threads in other places that explained all.
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#17
It's possibly tit for tat as AVF delete links to this forum on occasions. Have they started it here now?
Ridiculous policy when all we are trying to do is help people.

Watch it GLT, or perhaps your reference to AVF above might get censored.
 
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