Spanish channels on Astra 1 do not appear on downloads

NickR

New Member
I have had this box now for some 5 years and have been able to download Spanish channels on Astra 1 with ease via the advanced menu. I am aware that due to financial problems many of the Spanish regional programmes have closed.
However, the state run FTA channels, TVE Internacional and Canal 24 Horas, relocated to Astra 1M 11626 V on 19/3/2014. According to the RTVE website, these channel details are still correct. I cannot view them.
Curiously, Aragón TV INT relocated to Astra 1L 11067 Von 7/9/2015 (after the two state channels) and it does download and I can watch it.
I can still watch over 200 channels on Astra 1, so the procedure for downloading channels does, generally, work.
Does anyone have a solution, or at least an explanation? Humax state they do not support the non-freesat function, so no help there.
Many thanks
 
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NickR

New Member
Thanks for the quick response.

I'm not able to be near my tv at the moment and will try to get this info later this evening.
My recollection is that there is nothing visible at all for this frequency.
However, I will also check CNN Int. and Al Jazeera English which appear to share the same frequency, as well as 2 German channels.
It is almost as if the Spanish channels are encrypted, but all the information indicates FTA. Furthermore they broadcast all day long.
 
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NickR

New Member
I finally got access to the tv late last night.

On the listings resulting from manual tuning I have nothing visible from 11597 V to 11671 H, skipping over both 11612 H and 11627 V.
Both the missing frequencies are on Astra 1M, which leads me to wonder if the box "knows" of the existence of Astra 1M and 1N: the number of FTA channels found, circa 200, suggest not.
I cannot find out when these two new satellites went live, but I wonder if it was after the latest software update I have been able to download which was in 2012.
If my assumptions are correct, does anybody know of a way of getting the box to recognize the missing satellites, or I am going to have to replace it?

Many thanks
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
I finally got access to the tv late last night.

On the listings resulting from manual tuning I have nothing visible from 11597 V to 11671 H, skipping over both 11612 H and 11627 V.
Both the missing frequencies are on Astra 1M, which leads me to wonder if the box "knows" of the existence of Astra 1M and 1N: the number of FTA channels found, circa 200, suggest not.
I cannot find out when these two new satellites went live, but I wonder if it was after the latest software update I have been able to download which was in 2012.
If my assumptions are correct, does anybody know of a way of getting the box to recognize the missing satellites, or I am going to have to replace it?

Many thanks

Unlikely to be the box. Loss of a range of frequencies could be water ingress into the 19.2E coax cable to the diseqc switch if you have offset lnbs or a failing 19.2E lnb. Your box doesn't know about satellites, it just tunes into the full ku band frequency range. It cannot differentiate between different satellites at the same orbital point. Do you have reception from 28.2E ?
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Yes I do and also what was Hotbird.

So do you have missing channels in the same frequency range on the other orbital locations ? If no missing channels (assuming you are in a location where you have the UK spot beam reception) it cannot be the receiver. Guessing you have three lnbs on a single dish with a diseqc switch. Obvious likely culprit is the 19.2E lnb.

On 28.2 E Freesat mode channels in the range you can't get.

161 SHOWCASE 11597 V
693 ISLAM CHANNEL 11597 V
695 Sonlife TV 11597 V
809 TJC 11597 V
815 Thane 11597 V


Other possibility is that the new satellites have a much tighter beam pattern for some transponders (Like the new Astra 2 UK spot beams)

This seems very unlikely.

http://sattvinfo.net/beam.php?b=astra19&lang=en
 
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NickR

New Member
Yes, you did guess correctly, I have a single dish with 3 LNBs pointing at 28.2E, 19.2E and 13.0E with a diseqc switch: I am based in London and there are no tall trees obstructing reception.
Using the website you first pointed me to, I have the following TV FTA channels:
Per King of Sat site Per Humax Advanced Manual Tune
Astra 2 28.2E 498 247
Astra 1 19.2E 702 310
Hotbird 970 391

Unfortunately, Humax does not show which satellite is used for any particular channel, just the satellite group e.g. Astra 1.

From the above, it would seem I am missing a lot of channels and not just from 19.2E, even supposing many are just data or tests.

As the satellite installation has been in its current position for around 8 years, I suppose that cable and/or LNB deterioration or being knocked off alignment could well be possible causes.

I shall now try to see what happens on 28.2E at 11597.

Many thanks once again for you efforts to try to shed some light on this problem. I really appreciate the time and interest.

PS Sorry about the alignment, the channel totals are 2 groups of 3 numbers each under the 2 headings.
 
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grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Yes, you did guess correctly, I have a single dish with 3 LNBs pointing at 28.2E, 19.2E and 13.0E with a diseqc switch: I am based in London and there are no tall trees obstructing reception.
Using the website you first pointed me to, I have the following TV FTA channels:
Per King of Sat site Per Humax Advanced Manual Tune
Astra 2 28.2E 498 247
Astra 1 19.2E 702 310
Hotbird 970 391

Unfortunately, Humax does not show which satellite is used for any particular channel, just the satellite group e.g. Astra 1.

From the above, it would seem I am missing a lot of channels and not just from 19.2E, even supposing many are just data or tests.

As the satellite installation has been in its current position for around 8 years, I suppose that cable and/or LNB deterioration or being knocked off alignment could well be possible causes.

I shall now try to see what happens on 28.2E at 11597.

Many thanks once again for you efforts to try to shed some light on this problem. I really appreciate the time and interest.

PS Sorry about the alignment, the channel totals are 2 groups of 3 numbers each under the 2 headings.

There's no way a sattelite receiver can tell which satellite has which transponder it would need a table of service ID's (SID) of each satellite on board.

I will do a full FTA non freesat channel scan on 28.2E and compare number of channels found. Starting with no channels in non freesat. Did you search for only FTA channels of all types ?

406 TV and 60 Radio found.

EDIT

Then download the HTM version from the post here and open it in a web browser. Check one channel from each transponder in freesat mode.

https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/what-can-i-record-and-watch-using-1-or-2-cables
 
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NickR

New Member
I tried a manual tune to 11597 on 28.2E and the channels skipped from 11585 to 11604. Similarly a manual tune of 13.0E resulted in a skip from 11538 to 11604.

This morning I searched for FTA channels of all types on 28.2E and found only 247 TV and 39 Radio: rather less than you found!
How do I clear all the channels recorded before I start the search? I thought it was automatic.
I shall carry out a full manual tune of FTA channels on 28.2E later to-night and compare it with your list.

Regarding the table of service IDs, I vaguely recall that my old analogue Manhattan Plaza used to do this and had regular upgrades.

Many thanks.
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
When you scan using manual tune it adds channels to non freesat, creating duplicates if you have already scanned them. To delete ( If I remember correctly) enter Non-Freesat. select edit channels select all TV and delete, repeat with select all radio and delete. To eliminate the diseqc switch you might like to connect the 28.2E lnb directly to the box and repeat the non freesat scan. I didn't have any non freesat channels stored so no non-freesat mode and after the scan I didn't save any.
 
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NickR

New Member
Thanks for the info about deletions. I deleted all TV and Radio channels on all 3 satellite feeds and the re-searched.

Curious results to say the least.

Astra 2 28.2E - Strength 80% Quality 100% channels 406 TV and 60 Radio [Just as you found]
Astra 1 19.2E - Strength 85% Quality 100% channels 298TV and 85 Radio [Down from previous searches]
Hotbird 13.0E - Strength 80% Quality 100% channels 395TV and 163 Radio [Marginally up on previous searches]

I suppose that indicates problems with the LNBs and/or cables for Astra 1 and Hotbird. I doubt it is due to misalignment because the LNBs are in a specific holder, so if 1 is well aligned the other 2 probably are. It looks as if I will have to get someone to replace the cables and the LNBs after they test reception with appropriate metering kit and ensuring that the new satellites can actually be seen from my position.

Once again many thanks for your time and patience in helping me understand what part of my system is failing.
 

aciddad

Member
I had a similar problem some years ago with some transponders missing which turned out to be a faulty diseqc switch.

David
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info about deletions. I deleted all TV and Radio channels on all 3 satellite feeds and the re-searched.

Curious results to say the least.

Astra 2 28.2E - Strength 80% Quality 100% channels 406 TV and 60 Radio [Just as you found]
Astra 1 19.2E - Strength 85% Quality 100% channels 298TV and 85 Radio [Down from previous searches]
Hotbird 13.0E - Strength 80% Quality 100% channels 395TV and 163 Radio [Marginally up on previous searches]

I suppose that indicates problems with the LNBs and/or cables for Astra 1 and Hotbird. I doubt it is due to misalignment because the LNBs are in a specific holder, so if 1 is well aligned the other 2 probably are. It looks as if I will have to get someone to replace the cables and the LNBs after they test reception with appropriate metering kit and ensuring that the new satellites can actually be seen from my position.

Once again many thanks for your time and patience in helping me understand what part of my system is failing.

How big is your dish ? Which lnb is at the prime focus, guessing it's 19.2E one ? I only have 28.2E Zone 2 Sky dish Midlands. Pretty well all Freesat channels report 100/100.

The field strength of the 19.2E transponders will be lower than the UK spots simply because the transmitted power covers a much larger area. Think of a focussing torch, with a tight beam the area it illuminates is much brighter than if you zoom out. Same number of Photons spread over a different area.

As you have similar issues with similar frequencies I would be looking at a local source of interference at the Intermediate Frequencies imposed on the coax cables used by these channels.

Try turning off any local rf source you may have cordless phone base station, wireless router etc. Do you know what coax cable you have used for the final connections to the Foxsat ? If old RG6 or similar best to replace with WF100 cable.

It's impossible for you to see some satellites at 19.2E and not the others. You would need a dish the size of Jodrell bank to have the resolution to pick out a few satellites in a group and not the others. For instance at 28.2E the replacement for Eurobird 1 (28.5e) is not exactly at 28.2E. They normally keep them in a cube of space about 30mls apart, at over 22000 mls away the angle between them is minute. Incidentally the numbers you quote only apply to one transponder. To check individual ones you need to tune to a channel on the transponder and then look at diagnostics.
 
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NickR

New Member
Thank you both for your input. I will add the diseqc switch to the items to be checked out.

I cannot remember the actual size of the dish, although it is wider than it's high: it is not like a typically small oval sky dish, it is much larger.
I don't know which LNB is the prime focus, although logically it is probably 19.2E as you suggest.
I understand the issue of the beam strength from the transponders, although being in London I would have thought it was not a big deal with these 3 satellites, given that no buildings or trees are in the way.
Similarly, the rf interference issue is possible, but little more can be done about it practically as the physical separation of devices is about as good as possible (on opposite sides of the house which is old with thick brick internal walls) and the router operates at 5MH precisely to avoid the obvious culprits which are many at 2.4MH.

However, I am not convinced that it is just a small band of frequencies that are missing, given that the number of FTA channels available for 19.2E and 13.0E according to the King of Sat site you directed me to are several hundred more than I can achieve for each satellite.

I am beginning to believe that the main problem is the age of the components. The dish and the LNBs date from at least 2009. However, the coax cables, the diseqc switch and possibly the LNBs date from much earlier, probably the 1990s. Graham's comment on older coax cables lead me to this thinking.

I think this is a job for warmer weather than now.

Many thanks from both of you for taking time to help me understand what is probably going wrong. At my age (70+) I am now well outside my comfort zone!

Nick
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Thank you both for your input. I will add the diseqc switch to the items to be checked out.

I cannot remember the actual size of the dish, although it is wider than it's high: it is not like a typically small oval sky dish, it is much larger.
I don't know which LNB is the prime focus, although logically it is probably 19.2E as you suggest.
I understand the issue of the beam strength from the transponders, although being in London I would have thought it was not a big deal with these 3 satellites, given that no buildings or trees are in the way.
Similarly, the rf interference issue is possible, but little more can be done about it practically as the physical separation of devices is about as good as possible (on opposite sides of the house which is old with thick brick internal walls) and the router operates at 5MH precisely to avoid the obvious culprits which are many at 2.4MH.

However, I am not convinced that it is just a small band of frequencies that are missing, given that the number of FTA channels available for 19.2E and 13.0E according to the King of Sat site you directed me to are several hundred more than I can achieve for each satellite.

I am beginning to believe that the main problem is the age of the components. The dish and the LNBs date from at least 2009. However, the coax cables, the diseqc switch and possibly the LNBs date from much earlier, probably the 1990s. Graham's comment on older coax cables lead me to this thinking.

I think this is a job for warmer weather than now.

Many thanks from both of you for taking time to help me understand what is probably going wrong. At my age (70+) I am now well outside my comfort zone!

Nick

You have a so called round dish (A standard dish in Europe). From the offset location of the lnb's the dish looks round, therefore the lnb feed horn, which collects the microwave radiation is circular. The horizontal oval dishes which you will see everywhere are designed for the sky type lnb's that have an oval feedhorn shape. My dish was self installed in 2008 (and my Foxsat-HDR also from 2008) so i don't think the age of the dish and lnb is significant if it was properly installed and weather proofed in the first place. Incidentally I am 72 so a bit older than you are :)

For safeties sake disconnect the lnb connection to your box and check carefully for signs of water. If the outer cover of the cable is cracked or the lnb connection waterproofing has sealed then water can track down the coax and into your Foxsat and ruin it. This is much worse with air spaced dialectric coax which you may well have. If the lnb connections are wet you may find them very corroded. Hint use silicon grease and boots (or self amalgamating) tape to protect in future.

You might like to read this useful info about lnb's and satellite dishes.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
I thought that 'round' dishes were taller than they are wide? I wonder how 'much larger'? Sky Z2? Although I would not describe that as 'much larger' than a Z1 Sky dish.

Me not reading correctly, it's possibly a zone 2 sky dish like mine (80cm wide). It's a lot larger than next doors Mark 3 mini dish, the Mk4 design is a bit larger than a Mk3. I wonder what type lnb's are on it. If designed for a round dish that would impact a bit on performance, but the satellites the OP want's to get are very easy to get in the UK. I can get 19.2E on a tiny portable camping dish.
 
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NickR

New Member
Sorry for not responding over the last few days, real life intervened in the form of a bad device connection that blew the fuses on all the ring main circuits including the computer's. That said, Microsoft's new browser decided to lose all my recent additions to favourites, including this forum. Putting everything back in order is an on-going project.

From what all of you have contributed, I believe that the fault(s) lie with either the coax cables or the diseqc device: the LNBs could probably be improved, but I cannot see them being so selective as to pick and choose the frequencies they receive. I should probably question the dish size as well.

I did not install the dish so I don't know exactly its size or the type of LNBs installed. Unfortunately, I cannot readily access the dish myself, due to a total lack of balance whilst up a ladder of any size. But at least I now know the sort of questions to put.

I will post the findings of the installer in due course, just to provide closure to the problem which might prove helpful to others. Always assuming that the problem is solved.

Many thanks to those who have offered advice.

Nick
 
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