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Winter Hill Channel 59

Discussion in 'Freeview' started by Kev_w, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    Hi All,

    Anybody else on the Winter Hill transmitter having signal issues?

    I wasn't receiving itv4 (one of the stations on mux 59) so I did an auto retune. Never had issues with "800s" channels before but after the retune all the stations on mux 59 moved to 800-810. I checked the signal strenth and it was 50% like all the others but signal quality was down to 5%. Would that not indicate interference rather than poor signal?

    I did a manual retune choosing only the channels listed for the winter hill transmitter but the results were the same as for the auto retune.

    Anybody got any ideas?
  2. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    When you did the manual re-tune did you first delete all the existing channels first ?
  3. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    I started and stopped an automatic scan - clearing all channels.

    I'll check for sure later but I suspect that if I were to just tune channel 59 it would place all the stations in that mux >799

    I had a quick look online and there is apparently planned maintenance on winter hill this week so I'll let to dust clear before I mess around too much. I've just manually tuned all the other stations and I'll live without mux 59 for now...
  4. prpr

    prpr Well-Known Member

    It won't, unless you have any duplicates LCNs for services on that mux., which you won't have if you've just cleared all the tuning.
  5. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    We don't know what box you are trying to tune. In general to delete all channels in the absence of an easy way to do this via the menus, is remove the aerial and do a auto scan saving the results afterwards. Starting and stopping a scan is very unlikely to delete existing channels. As already said if a manual scan adds channels in the 800's you already have those channels on your box. Only duplicates to existing services are stored in the 800's.

    Humax boxes have a simple way to select all TV and then Radio channels and delete them all before manual tuning.
  6. Black Hole

    Black Hole May contain traces of nut

    It does on a HD- and HDR-FOX, and that is the procedure we have used for years (as is written up in the tuning advice on this forum).
    af123 and Wallace like this.
  7. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    Thanks for all your help guys but looks as though it was just something funky with the transmitter because I've manage to re-tune channel 59 and quality level is back to normal - no duplicates.

    No Com 7 or 8 still - might be time to buy a wide band aerial...
  8. Trev

    Trev The Dumb One

    What band aerial do you have at present?
  9. RobH1

    RobH1 Well-Known Member

  10. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    I assume its a Group C/D

    Just looked at the chart here http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/help_and_advice/reception_guide and that would explain why im not getting COM7&8 as they are on channels 31&37 - nowhere near Group C/D range!

    Also, only just become aware of this....

    Upcoming changes to Freeview airwaves
    Ofcom has taken the decision to reallocate some airwaves currently used by Freeview to mobile services. This is designed to meet a predicted increase in the demand for mobile data and the process is expected to complete in 2020.

    Most Freeview viewers will simply need to retune their TV equipment when this change takes place in their area. However, Ofcom has stated that between 100,000 -160,000 homes currently using a grouped rooftop aerial may need a replacement be sure they can continue to receive all available channels in their area. Some viewers may also need to install a small filter at the back of their TV to prevent interference once new mobile services launch.

    Viewers in the process of replacing their aerial in areas where signals are transmitted in Group C/D are recommended to consider a wideband model.

    More information on wideband aerials is available from Ofcom here.

    In the budget statement of March 2015 the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced that funding would be set aside for these changes to airwaves. More details on the changes and support for viewers will be available nearer the time.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  11. Trev

    Trev The Dumb One

    That's why I asked as it used to be a C/D transmitter.
  12. Black Hole

    Black Hole May contain traces of nut

    We discussed that to death ages ago - it's what we refer to as the 4G problem. Even if the 4G service doesn't affect your local TV frequencies, there is a risk that a very local 4G transceiver could saturate your tuner inputs, and require filtering out before it gets to them.
  13. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    I knew about the 4g problem. Channels in my area have already been moved around to cater for that. I thought the statement above was indicating further upheaval which might end up making C/D aerials redundant.

    I do apologise profusely.

    I didn't realise that they were going to clear 700mhz for 4g as well as the 800mhz they already use.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2016
  14. Black Hole

    Black Hole May contain traces of nut

    No need for that.

    I don't think I knew about 700MHz either, but these things are a moving target.
  15. Kev_w

    Kev_w Member

    Moving target indeed. I'm not sure what the long term plan is for people who have C/D group aerials if they do stop broadcasting freeview at 700mhz as the range for these aerials is 690mhz and up?

    Wide band aerials apparently are more likely to pick up interference from 4g masts (makes sense I suppose) and that is surely going to get worse if they use 700mhz too.

    There is a newer wideband(ish) group aerial called T band which covers everything up to 600mhz - wonder if that is the long term plan.

    Don't really want to invest in a wide band aerial (even though its the only option to recieve all channels currently) if it's going to cause issues later on? Suppose I'd just need a filter.
  16. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

  17. Luke

    Luke Well-Knwon Member

    Ofcom confirmed the 700Mhz clearance last November towards the end of 2015's World Radiocommunication Conference, having previously announced the clearance a year before that with a latest target date of 2021.

    Part of the reason given by DTG for some of the d-book 8 changes for tuning was to ensure that new equipment could easily handle major frequency reorganisations, including the 700Mhz clearance. http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/about_digital_uk/digital_uk_blog/D-Book_gets_smart_to_improve_retuning

    Among the preparation activities there are some negations to be done with the owners of COM7 and COM8 licensees which will effect the plans and the dates. The aim is to start updating some transmitters Autumn 2017, so hopefully there will be a change map by then. The current target for completion is 2020. Who would have financial assistance should their aerial require changing and how that would be handled has not been revealed yet, and appears to be still under discussion judging my one of the questions in the consultation that ended in May.
    I think I read on A516's website that Arqiva are trying to negotiate some retention of COM7 and COM8 until 2023 as part of the early removal of COM7 & COM8 from their current slots to enable the reshuffle of the frequencies for the other multiplexes for 700Mhz band clearance, and so the outcome will be interesting.

    My expectation is that where the PSB multiplexes are within the original group for a transmitter then there will be an attempt not to change those to a frequency that is out of group.
    For those whose PSB multiplexes are currently in the 7000Mh band, A516digital has an example from Ofcom of how much Winter Hill could have its frequencies changed.
    http://www.a516digital.com/2016/04/ofcom-seeks-input-on-freeview-changes.html. Also included in that link is what appears to be an extract from one of the Ofcom document of which main transmitters are expected to have the most shakeup, possibly http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/bi...arance-cfi/summary/700_MHz_Implementation.pdf or https://cai.org.uk/downloadables/fi...try-and-consumers-ready-for-700-mhz-clearance

    edit 7/7/16: Corrected sentence beginning 'I think'.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016
  18. Black Hole

    Black Hole May contain traces of nut

    And I thought DSO was pretty much over!
  19. Trev

    Trev The Dumb One

    What's for sure is that a C/D aerial is specially designed to pick up the frequencies an which the 4G transmits.
  20. Black Hole

    Black Hole May contain traces of nut

    I'm not convinced that's an issue. It's unlikely the 4G source will be in the polar diagram of the aerial, so the aerial (of that band) isn't specifically picking up the 4G any more than another band aerial would be. The problem is general pickup worsening the S/N ratio, and if the wanted signals can be moved away from the interference signal then a band stop filter can be used to block the noise.