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Advice for Tuning Multiple Regions

Border

Member
The surprise however, is that it did not fail because of the rapidly changing EPG data.
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I have observed that changes to the schedule for programs from the other region (ie the one not actively being viewed) wont occur until the other regions EPG is the one the humax is using and the schedule is accessed (either when AR starts monitoring 10 mins before scheduled start or a change (eg new recording or reminder) made in the schedule.

So the multiple region and lack of schedule update and not the rapidly changing EPG caused the problems?
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
The Friday recordings were attempted at the correct (updated) times, but failed because of a three-way clash. I was watching the tennis on Wales, and the 6pm news was recorded off BBC NEWS on the West transmitter, so both EPGs were up to date by the time the regional programmes were broadcast.

I agree that under other circumstances the Wales regional broadcast would have been lost, and this is the limitation of multi-region recording (unless one sets reminder reservations at frequent intervals for both regions, but these might create conflicts with real recordings).
 

Border

Member
My HDR receives a signal from Freeview (F) and Saorview (S).

I have noticed recently on one HDR that when it is switched on, not having being used that day (i.e. no recordings, no browsing of channels or media files), it has a full 6 Day EPG for both areas (F+S). Note on webif the EPG is only one region/area (S).

My preference would be to see the full EPG for both regions simultaneously! However as soon as a channel is changed the EPG from one region disappears.

I have noticed that it only happens when the box is not used for the whole day. AND strangely it only happens on one HDR, on the other HDR it has not happened yet.

I tried a few things and then realised that it only happened on the HDR that I had poweron installed. I had set poweron to CBEEBIES and realised that on the evenings that this happened I powered on the HDR when CBEEBIES had stopped transmitting for the evening.

To test this I installed Poweron on the other box, set it to poweron to CBEEBIES. I left it to power off on a Saorview Channel with only the Saorview EPG on the HDR. That night when I came back I switched on both HDRS and both had almost 6 days EPG displayed for both regions.

What was even more surprising was that when I went in to guide>find and searched by keyword I was able to search both EPG regions. Even pressing the recording options on both regions offered me to record the program only or the series.

This doesn’t happen to the EPGS during the day. I wonder is the difference that during the day the signal is carrying the EPG in the broadcast stream where as at night when the box is ‘powered on’ to CBEEBIES there is no EPG broadcast so the EPG on the Humax is not altered from startup.

I realise this situation is different to multi-region but I also wonder if this is reproducible on a box receiving two Freeview regions ?

I suspect the Humax software uses an in-memory copy of the data and just dumps it periodically so that it can reload it at startup in order that the guide works straight away.
It would seem that the EPG is sorted and stored ready for startup but this time the Hummy did not know which data/region to display so it displayed all the stored data.

One question from this is what is the different when the box powers up onto a channel like CBEEBIES in the evening that has stopped transmitting?

I waited for over 15 minutes and can confirm that the EPG was not updated and the Data from both regions was still present. I then, without changing a channel, played a stored media file and the Saorview EPG disappeared on the Hummy. Both EPGs still appeared on webif, but it normally takes webif 15 minutes or so to change to the active region. About 15 minutes after the media file was played webif is now only showing the Freeview EPG also suggesting an EPG update may have occurred.

Another question this raises does playing a media file also trigger EPG update similar to changing channel?

So I'm convinced all the data is there, the Humax just seems capable of displaying the on-screen EPG from only one transmitter at a time.
I would agree. Yes all the data is there. But the humax is capable of displaying the on-screen EPG from both transmitters, albeit only under certain conditions!!! It even allows EPG searches from the two regions.

I accept that conflicts over AR flags and current/now next information mean that the box should only ‘tune’ to one transmitter at a time but what about having both EPGs simultaneously?
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Interesting.
I realise this situation is different to multi-region but I also wonder if this is reproducible on a box receiving two Freeview regions ?
I don't have any problem showing EPG data from two Freeview regions simultaneously, so I'm not sure what I could do to confirm your observations.
 

Border

Member
I waited for over 15 minutes and can confirm that the EPG was not updated and the Data from both regions was still present. I then, without changing a channel, played a stored media file and the Saorview EPG disappeared on the Hummy.

Another question this raises does playing a media file also trigger EPG update similar to changing channel?
I have tried this a few more times and it is not the playing of the media file that triggers the change to the EPG update but when the media file stops or is stopped. I.e. during file playback the EPG remains with both Saorview and Freeview data but when the playback stops the Saorview data dissapears and presumably the displayed Freeview EPG is being updated.
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
This may be unrelated to my multiple region tuning, but HDR3 has exhibited a couple of weird symptoms lately:
  1. It failed to turn on at its power on timer time;
  2. A weekday manual timer recording disappeared from the schedule.
It is possible it could do with a reset. I will monitor the situation.
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
That's an iPad oops (which refuses to accept "ill" is a word, and every time I use"Wed" as an abbreviation for Wednesday the grammar prediction thinks I want "We'd")... is iOS7 any better?
 

4291

Well-Known Member
Why do you need a Spellchecker or a Grammar checker? Don't be lazy switch them off! :D
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Have you tried typing with the iPad keyboard without the auto-correct turned on???

It's not exactly a grammar checker - the auto-correct seems to be grammar aware when trying to make a best guess. It's the only guess I can come up with as to why correctly spelt English words get substituted sometimes and not others. However, I just tested the word "wed" in a proper grammatical situation and it still tried to substitute "we'd". Dunno.

What I am saying is that I have fewer corrections to make with the auto-correct turned on than with it turned off. What it lacks is any customisation options (like adding "wed" as a valid word to the dictionary).
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Aha! That might explain something. I thought it was strange I can still access HDR3 via the network when it should be off by now - it is off, but in the delinquent state.
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Update:

I decided to retune, and incorporate 801=BBC1 Wales, 802= BBC2 Wales, 803=ITV Wales. The updated procedure goes like this:
  1. Manually tune the full range of England muxes;
  2. Tune a sacrificial Wales mux - this cannot be the same as the ones to keep later, so as I am only receiving BBC A, D3&4, and BBC B (T2) that means BBC B (when saving, select England as the primary). Note there are very few services added to the list at this stage because only services unique and not already saved from the England muxes are stored;
  3. Keep LCN 800, delete 801+;
  4. Tune BBC A Wales (when saving, select England as the primary);
  5. Keep LCN 800-802, delete 803+;
  6. Tune D3&4 Wales (when saving, select England as the primary);
  7. Keep LCN 801-803, delete 800, 804+;
  8. Clean up (ie remove unwanted services - this could be automatic on reboot if using the CF channeldel package).
While doing this I noticed an anomaly with the 800+ allocation of services. In the OP I postulated that the displaced services are allocated to 800+ in strict order of displacement, but I saw results which contradict the postulate allocating S4C and ITV+1 at (IIRC) 805 and 807. I do not understand why this is.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
In the OP I postulated that the displaced services are allocated to 800+ in strict order of displacement, but I saw results which contradict the postulate allocating S4C and ITV+1 at (IIRC) 805 and 807.
I've always taken that as some sort of knock on effect of having to temporarily store all the channels from the individual mux being tuned as it has not yet asked you which region/area it should use as primary.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
I have proven categorically that AR recording does not work if you are viewing a channel from the wrong region (or the wrong region was viewed last) when a pending recording is waiting for the AR flag.
For two UK transmitters it depends on which channel from the other tranmitter is scheduled to start recording.
The ArqA, ArqB and SDN multiplexes are all OK with my two transmitter tuned HDR-FOX T2s and always have been. And for at least a few months recordings from the COM7, COM8, BBC1 SD and ITV 1 SD are also OK.
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Are they two transmitters in the same region, or are they transmitters from different regions?

I operate with a blanket set of West services from Mendip, plus only those required for BBC1 Wales, BBC2 Wales, and ITV Wales from the Mynydd Machen mast. When I performed trials around the start date of this topic, AR recordings refused to start if I was viewing a service from the other region, and started immediately if I switched.

Maybe it's time I retested.
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
PSB1-3 are regionalised and COM4-8 are not. This probably means you can mix and match COMs from different transmitters, but not PSBs.
I haven't tried it though.
 
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Bloody retunes!

From the Mendip transmitter, the BBCA mux switched frequency just after 9am today. I was unprepared, because dispatches had mentioned "PBS1" which I failed to recognise as the main BBC service AKA "BBCA" (and I just ignore tweaks on the minor muxes unless there is demonstrable inconvenience).

Here's the weird thing: I run an automatic search, then (I can also receive from Wenvoe and Mynydd Machen) it asks whether I want Wales or England. OK... England please. You would expect BBC 1 West on LCN 1, and BBC 1 Wales to be bumped to 8xx, but no! Having asked for "England", I'm getting BBC1 Wales on LCN 1 and BBC1 West on LCN 751*! Selecting "Wales" makes no difference. I can only guess this confusion has been caused by Wenvoe being in the mix.

tunefix-update is not much good to me because I don't reboot often enough. My tunefix config needs something sensible to work on, and that's not what I've got (it can only sort things out after the tuning database has been set up, not interfere with the process of setting it up). I have come to the conclusion that, even with tunefix to tidy up afterwards, an automatic tuning search is not an option when your aerial picks up from more than one transmitter/region.

The reason for this is that, with multiplexes being found from different transmitters in effectively an uncontrolled sequence, and some StDef services being carried on DVB-T2 muxes (which are only scanned after all the DVB-T muxes), it is near enough unpredictable which services have been allocated to what LCNs (I even had one turn up on LCN 1000!), and it is impractical to code a tunefix config file that will sort it all out without knowledge of the starting point.

More misery on 5th June, and again 19th June (although that one is only on "also ran" services as far as I am concerned), but at least that should be the end of it.

* UPDATE: This post may need to be revised. 751 is a mirror broadcast, and I am not actually receiving the proper mux on UHF32 - this may be due to my aerial system being configured to block C5 in the days of analogue, to prevent interference with a video distribution system. All this may result in me losing my security camera distribution!
 
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prpr

Well-Known Member
From the Mendip transmitter, the BBCA mux switched frequency just after 9am today. I was unprepared, because dispatches had mentioned "PBS1" which I failed to recognise as the main BBC service AKA "BBCA"
Did you not read my post on Sunday about it then?
More misery on 5th June, and again 19th June (although that one is only on "also ran" services as far as I am concerned)
PSB2 and PSB3 are changing then. I wouldn't consider them "also ran" services... oh, I see you meant the 19th only for those.
 
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