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AR on a per-recording or per-service basis

Discussion in 'HD/HDR-FOX T2 Customised Firmware' started by Black Hole, Dec 18, 2011.

  1. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    The old AR v Padding enmities have opened up in "the other place" again, and suggestions (again) that it would be nice to be able to select on a per-recording basis rather than all one or all the other.

    I am wondering, with the increased state of knowledge since this was last aired, whether anything has been spotted in the database that would make it amenable to customised tweaking? As far as I know, it's a global parameter which affects all programmes scheduled to be recorded, at the time they are actually recorded (though heaven knows what happens if you switch the setting while something is being recorded).
     
  2. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    The scheduling database contains pre and post padding values for each entry in there. If you change the global parameter, then it updates every row in the schedule table to reflect the new values, regardless of the current value,

    It should be perfectly possible to mix padding/AR on a per recording basis but I've never tested it and they're are quite a few interactions that would need investigating. It would also be possible to have a batch process that disabled AR on specific services that are known to have problems with it.
     
  3. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    :) This sounds like new territory for the BYTs to explore, as if they didn't have enough to do!
     
  4. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    In my opinion, the way to tackle this would be to have padding by default (set according to preference on the menus), and then the background process tweaks the setting to AR for a list of trustworthy services.
     
  5. Brian

    Brian Administrator Staff Member

    I would suggest AR by default, with the option to set padding for unreliable channels if required.
     
  6. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    Yes, maybe that would be nice, but I think it would be easier to implement the other way round, and probably easier to test.
     
  7. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    That's really subjective! I use AR and have never had a problem, and for testing I would pick specific recordings and convert them to padded...

    I'll come up with a way of toggling the flag on a recording, then both sets of people will be able to contribute to the testing.
     
  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    If you change AR to padding, you would also need to specify how much padding. Changing padding to AR only means getting rid of whatever padding there is.

    I'm not being partisan about this.
     
    af123 likes this.
  9. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    I did a quick test on a recording that was scheduled to run this morning on BBC2. I use AR so it would usually have woken up 15 minutes before and kicked off around the scheduled time - here's the HMT info from a previous recording in this series:

    Code:
    Box wakeup time: Sun Dec 18 06:15:01 GMT 2011
    Scheduled start:1324189800 (Sun Dec 18 06:30:00 2011)
    Scheduled duration:900
    Recording start:1324189938 (Sun Dec 18 06:32:18 2011)
    Recording end:1324190630 (Sun Dec 18 06:43:50 2011)
    Box sleep time: Sun Dec 18 06:44:01 GMT 2011
    
    I added padding to just this specific scheduled entry - 300 seconds before and 240 afterwards and this morning's recording looks like:

    Code:
    Box wakeup time: Mon Dec 19 06:25:01 GMT 2011
    Scheduled start:1324276200 (Mon Dec 19 06:30:00 2011)
    Scheduled duration:900
    Recording start:1324275901 (Mon Dec 19 06:25:01 2011)
    Recording end:1324277338 (Mon Dec 19 06:48:58 2011)
    Box sleep time: Mon Dec 19 06:49:01 GMT 2011
    
     
    Luke likes this.
  10. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    Looking good - but what tells it to look for the programme start/end flags?
     
  11. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    Padding values equal to zero.
     
  12. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    The latest version of the rs package adds support for toggling the recording mode of a scheduled recording between AR and Padding. It's experimental so it is only visible to those who were originally beta testers (+ Black Hole)*

    This should let us do some testing to see whether the idea of using mixed modes is feasible. If it proves to be, then we can discuss the best way to make use of it (such as having a list of trusted channels that get flagged to use AR).

    If you don't update the rs package then you will notice that all of your recordings in the RS portal have an AR icon against them regardless of whether you use AR on your device. If you have upgraded, then the icons will accurately reflect your device following the next schedule upload.

    * - Anyone else who wants to join in with the testing is welcome.
     
  13. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    :frantic:
     
  14. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    :) - For my next test, while leaving the box in AR mode, I've set up a recording for a series on ITV4 and converted it to padding (5m pre, 2m post) to see what happens. I'm particularly interested in what will happen when the next episode is scheduled.
     
    Luke likes this.
  15. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    OK, I've switched a few non-critical recordings over to AR (including the nighly Weatherview) - we'll see how it gets on!
     
  16. neilleeds

    neilleeds Member

    I think channels would definitely be the way forward. I mainly watch BBC content and never miss a start or end, where AR fails is channel 5 etc who have always messed up series recording, a.r. etc. Using channels keeps the implementation simple from a user perspective, per-recording would have a greater user overhead.
     
  17. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    I agree.
     
  18. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    My initial tests have been successful - I'll update the webif later to make it easier to tell what happened with a recording.
     
  19. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson Well-Known Member

    Anybody looking at this needs to distinguish auto padding from a simple conversion to a manual recording.

    Auto padding drops padding between consecutive recordings when the same tuner is used - two consecutive manual ones don't

    Auto padding retains series recording.
     
  20. Black Hole

    Black Hole Ron Glum

    How will we tell whether a recording has ended up true AR, and not auto-padding with zero padding? We need a test subject that gets transmitted at the wrong time!