can only listen to certain radio programmes while recording TV

Trev said:
So it seems like BH's B) sums it up then?
Click to expand...

Not really

First thing checked was the box configuration - OP confirmed correct two cable mode working.

Second test - recording two channels from the same transponder - OP appeared to confirm that the missing radio channels were still missing - though hard to understand as it contained a list of non existant freesat channels.

This leaves two possible situations - either he could actually get the radio channels lost in the long list of non existant channels. In this event the box is presumably working as it should. This means the OP did not correctly report what was being recorded in the first case.

To the OP if you start a recording on 101 - can you listen to Radio 3 and Radio 4 (the condition you reported at the start of this thread) ?

If the above is true and switching the inputs fixes it, then it indicates an issue with the cable formerly connected to lnb2 in.
 
grahamlthompson said:
You have to check all the transponders in the file I asked you to download first before switching connections. Firstly did you download the file I asked you to ? If not why not ? I could post a text file but it would be rather pointless.

The whole point is trying to find out why you could not listen to a radio recording you should have been able to listen to.
Click to expand...

Yes, all the transponder groups work in both configurations (though either 1 or 2 took me to the channel in the List, rather than straight to the channel)
 
tombar said:
Yes, all the transponder groups work in both configurations (though either 1 or 2 took me to the channel in the List, rather than straight to the channel)
Click to expand...

That's good, I have a theory about your missing radio - see the other thread. I will set up a test to confirm. Not sure what either 1 or 2 took me to the channel in the list means.
 
grahamlthompson said:
Not really

First thing checked was the box configuration - OP confirmed correct two cable mode working.

Second test - recording two channels from the same transponder - OP appeared to confirm that the missing radio channels were still missing - though hard to understand as it contained a list of non existant freesat channels.

This leaves two possible situations - either he could actually get the radio channels lost in the long list of non existant channels. In this event the box is presumably working as it should. This means the OP did not correctly report what was being recorded in the first case.

To the OP if you start a recording on 101 - can you listen to Radio 3 and Radio 4 (the condition you reported at the start of this thread) ?

If the above is true and switching the inputs fixes it, then it indicates an issue with the cable formerly connected to lnb2 in.
Click to expand...

OP says that, if he starts a recording on 101, he can listen to Radio 3 and 4
 
grahamlthompson said:
That's good, I have a theory about your missing radio - see the other thread. I will set up a test to confirm. Not sure what either 1 or 2 took me to the channel in the list means.
Click to expand...
For all frequency groups in your file except one or two, when I typed in the number from your file list and pressed OK, I went straight to the broadcast. For the other one or two, I was taken to the corresponding number in theList that you get if you press the "List" button, rather than directly to the programme, so had to press OK twice.

or he is not pressing the programme up/down button at all (possibly the cursor up/down keys around the OK button).
This is right - I've been pressing the buttons round the OK button - I didn't even know there was a separate programme up/down button
 
Black Hole said:
It seems to me that:

A) The OP didn't understand there are limitations on what services can be received simultaneously;

B) The OP's receiver may be badly configured, so that further limitations are unnecessarily imposed.

If the OP works through the correct configuration procedure, whatever limitations then remain will be those that are necessary.
Click to expand...

Hi Black Hole,

Point A is partially right. The OP is only going by the very vague information in the Foxsat manual =- "you can record two channels simultaneously" and "Recording 2 channels may be limited depending on your connections from the satellite dish; 2 feeds from the dish are required to record 2 channels without limitations". It doesn't mention anything about what services can be received simultaneously or if you can watch/listen to another while 2 are recording.
 
I think I know what happened. It's down to the way you recorded the BBC programmes from the SD and HD channels consecutively.

The tuner required to make the second recording is used 15 minutes before a recording is due. As a result it's not able to be used for radio channel (the first recording is from a Horizontal channel and the second from a Vertical Channel). During the period that the second tuner was uncommited the radio channel would have been usable.

I have to go out so can you try this for me. One off recordings will do fine.

Set a recording on 956 for the programme starting at 11:00 today (your SD BBC 1 region)
Set a recording on 102 for the programme starting at 11:30

I reckon you will be able to listen to Radio 3 on 703 till approx 11:15 when tuner 2 fires up to look for the accurate start signal for the BBC2 HD recording. At a guess you will get some sort of clash message telling you can't continue with the radio channel
 
tombar said:
Hi Black Hole,

Point A is partially right. The OP is only going by the very vague information in the Foxsat manual =- "you can record two channels simultaneously" and "Recording 2 channels may be limited depending on your connections from the satellite dish; 2 feeds from the dish are required to record 2 channels without limitations". It doesn't mention anything about what services can be received simultaneously or if you can watch/listen to another while 2 are recording.
Click to expand...

As you may now realise the answer to this is somewhat complex. I doubt Humax customer support agents would fully understand it anyway. If you have Excel on a PC I wrote a automatic programme that tells you exactly what you can watch while recording two (linked to on the MyHumax forum). Got to go out, if my post for the test is too late for you to set up I can dream up a later one when I return.
 
grahamlthompson said:
I think I know what happened. It's down to the way you recorded the BBC programmes from the SD and HD channels consecutively.

The tuner required to make the second recording is used 15 minutes before a recording is due. As a result it's not able to be used for radio channel (the first recording is from a Horizontal channel and the second from a Vertical Channel). During the period that the second tuner was uncommited the radio channel would have been usable.

I have to go out so can you try this for me. One off recordings will do fine.

Set a recording on 956 for the programme starting at 11:00 today (your SD BBC 1 region)
Set a recording on 102 for the programme starting at 11:30

I reckon you will be able to listen to Radio 3 on 703 till approx 11:15 when tuner 2 fires up to look for the accurate start signal for the BBC2 HD recording. At a guess you will get some sort of clash message telling you can't continue with the radio channel
Click to expand...

When you get back, Graham, can you give me another set? By the time I found your message, it was 10.58 and the thing takes so long to boot up that it was too late.

(It's always seemed strange to me that I've never ever had a conflict warning on setting up recordings, but do get them from preset recordings - maybe it's just chance, but it's always seemed strange. I also get messages that a recording has failed both when it has failed and when it hasn't).

One problem I had with your list was my PC and browser live in the upstairs office, while my TV is downstairs, so I had to print out a list of one channel from each frequency then slog through it, trying not to miss any!
 
tombar said:
When you get back, Graham, can you give me another set? By the time I found your message, it was 10.58 and the thing takes so long to boot up that it was too late.

(It's always seemed strange to me that I've never ever had a conflict warning on setting up recordings, but do get them from preset recordings - maybe it's just chance, but it's always seemed strange. I also get messages that a recording has failed both when it has failed and when it hasn't).

One problem I had with your list was my PC and browser live in the upstairs office, while my TV is downstairs, so I had to print out a list of one channel from each frequency then slog through it, trying not to miss any!
Click to expand...

No problem. Incidentally to display the guide instead of pressing guide, press the schedule button on the remote and then the red button. This displays the cached epg and avoids the time required to download a new one. The failed recording message can be generated when as previously described, a over-running recording curtails the start of the next recording.

To quickly move between channels in the epg at the current time tap in the channel number.

Try 956 12:15 (Bargain Hunt) 10802 H
113 12:40 (Corrie) 10758 V

Listen to 703 Radio 3 - expect it to have issues around 12:35.

If you have a smart phone or tablet - download the .htm file, or copy it to your mobile device, it should work on your phone or tablet using it's web browser. You can take that to the Foxsat:)
 
grahamlthompson said:
No problem. Incidentally to display the guide instead of pressing guide, press the schedule button on the remote and then the red button. This displays the cached epg and avoids the time required to download a new one. The failed recording message can be generated when as previously described, a over-running recording curtails the start of the next recording.

To quickly move between channels in the epg at the current time tap in the channel number.

Try 956 12:15 (Bargain Hunt) 10802 H
113 12:40 (Corrie) 10758 V

Listen to 703 Radio 3 - expect it to have issues around 12:35.

If you have a smart phone or tablet - download the .htm file, or copy it to your mobile device, it should work on your phone or tablet using it's web browser. You can take that to the Foxsat:)
Click to expand...

Have set it up, but it'll have to compete with my cleaning lady and the vacuum! And me being upstairs working. I'll be back

I'll download the first file on my tablet now that I'm wise and know "frequency" equates to transponder. I' still clueless about H and V - should both of my tuners show H?
 
grahamlthompson said:
No problem. Incidentally to display the guide instead of pressing guide, press the schedule button on the remote and then the red button. This displays the cached epg and avoids the time required to download a new one. The failed recording message can be generated when as previously described, a over-running recording curtails the start of the next recording.

To quickly move between channels in the epg at the current time tap in the channel number.

Try 956 12:15 (Bargain Hunt) 10802 H
113 12:40 (Corrie) 10758 V

Listen to 703 Radio 3 - expect it to have issues around 12:35.

If you have a smart phone or tablet - download the .htm file, or copy it to your mobile device, it should work on your phone or tablet using it's web browser. You can take that to the Foxsat:)
Click to expand...


At 12.40, Bargain Hunt and Radio 3 were competing for a while, then Bargain Hunt seemed to win out and I could no longer connect to Radio 3 703 (no access sign in top right of screen)
 
tombar said:
Have set it up, but it'll have to compete with my cleaning lady and the vacuum! And me being upstairs working. I'll be back

I'll download the first file on my tablet now that I'm wise and know "frequency" equates to transponder. I' still clueless about H and V - should both of my tuners show H?
Click to expand...

Broadcasts can be horizontally polarised or vertically polarised. Take Freeview normally the main power transmitters have the transmission antenna horizontal (think of the rf wave wiggling horizontally). As a result the aerial you use has to be mounted horizontally, if you mount it with it's elements vertical you will get a much lower signal. Relay transmitters normally use vertical so (you guessed it the aerial needs to be vertically orientated). This allows the use of frequencies that would otherwise interfere with each other (co-channel interference). An aerial is a passive device so you can use a single one to feed dozens of Freeview tuners.

On satellite adjacent frequencies are transmitted using alternate polarisations. In some cases the frequency used when rounded looks the same so you can get transponders showing the same frequency one being horizontal the other vertical. This allows many more frequencies to packed into a given bandwidth. You of course can't change the alignment of the lnb (the bit on the dish equivalent to the terrestrial aerial). The tuner switches the lnb into the appropriate mode for the channel you want to use using approx 12V and 18V DC (which also provides power for the lnb). The frequency range is also split into two halves (High and Low), the tuner switches it's lnb to high or low band using an ac tone. That's why you need two cables, each tuner controls it's own section of the lnb (Yours will almost certainly have 4 outputs with two spare).

The frequency band used is known as the Ku band and the LNB type is described as universal.

See

http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/lnb.htm

The short answer is both your tuners will tune horizontal or vertical transponders as required.

If you think about it that gives 4 possible combinations Low Band Horizontal, Low Band Vertical, High Band Horizontal and High Band Vertical - the abbreviations are in col 5 of the table LBH, LBV, HBH and HBV.

The band and polarisation are important in identifying which 3rd channels are usable especially on a Foxsat using just a single cable.

If you are recording two channels and find them in the table.

If both channels share the same transponder - any 3rd channel is usable.

If recordings are from different transponders, then any channel on the same transponder as either recording can be viewed.

Note for channels with multiple regions you can choose a different region to record to change what 3rd channels you can use while recording two.
 
tombar said:
At 12.40, Bargain Hunt and Radio 3 were competing for a while, then Bargain Hunt seemed to win out and I could no longer connect to Radio 3 703 (no access sign in top right of screen)
Click to expand...

That's more or less what you would expect. It ditched your radio to make the recording possible.
 
tombar said:
I' still clueless about H and V - should both of my tuners show H?
Click to expand...
As a brief explanation: these equate to Horizontal and Vertical signal polarisation, and the LNB in your satellite dish has to be switched to receive one or the other by means of a signal sent up the aerial cable. The receiver takes care of this when you select a service from the currently-tuned set.

In the old days this would mean that you can only receive from either H services or V services at any one time, but I believe the multi-feed LNBs now fitted are able to accept different polarisation switch signals on each feed cable. If you don't have one of this type of LNB, and in fact have an LNB with two outputs but only one switching input, this will further limit what you can do with simultaneous services.

IIRC there are other switching signals related to frequency bands, so similar also applies to bands as polarisations.

(Oops - in preparation while the previous two posts were posted)
 
Provided your Foxsat-hdr is left in sby overnight you should find a new channel tommorow morning.

161 Your TV - Available now on Freetime units
 
Black Hole said:
As a brief explanation: these equate to Horizontal and Vertical signal polarisation, and the LNB in your satellite dish has to be switched to receive one or the other by means of a signal sent up the aerial cable. The receiver takes care of this when you select a service from the currently-tuned set.

In the old days this would mean that you can only receive from either H services or V services at any one time, but I believe the multi-feed LNBs now fitted are able to accept different polarisation switch signals on each feed cable. If you don't have one of this type of LNB, and in fact have an LNB with two outputs but only one switching input, this will further limit what you can do with simultaneous services.

(Oops - in preparation while the previous two posts were posted)
Click to expand...

I vaguely remember the old lnb's. They are all now universal with band and polarisation switching (Have been for many years).

Most people will have a dish designed for Sky (wider than tall) and a standard universal lnb designed to fit the dish arm and a feed horn shape designed for the oval dish. 1, 4 or 8 outputs. They don't make twins for Sky dishes, they make so many quads, as a result they cost peanuts to buy.
 
Additional: H and V signals also means the satellite dish has to not only point in the right direction but also be orientated correctly, otherwise the signal will drop off (particularly in a low signal area). With H and V signals on the same frequency, even a small misalignment will produce co-channel interference.
 
Black Hole said:
Additional: H and V signals also means the satellite dish has to not only point in the right direction but also be orientated correctly, otherwise the signal will drop off (particularly in a low signal area). With H and V signals on the same frequency, even a small misalignment will produce co-channel interference.
Click to expand...

The ability to distinguish between horizontal and vertical is not related to the dish alignment (azimuth - compass direction and elevation). It's down to the twist angle of the lnb in it's collar - correctly known as Skew. In fact it's not that critical as there is one satellite (the one used by the Freesat home transponder) which has a different (in fact standard for the orbital point) to the remainder of the SES satellites. A comprimise is required.

For my location - from www.dishpointer.com

Astra 2E at 28.4E Skew -21.3 deg

Astra 2A, 2C, 2D and 2F at 28.2E Skew - 13.7 deg

The two transponders with nearly the same frequency are both on Astra 2E (The replacement for Eutelsat 28A)

from Kingofsat (rounding in sat recievers often quote the same frequency.

11425 H - Freesat home transponder and Freesat Info Channel 999

11426 V

135 CBS Reality
149 Food Network
151 Food Network+1
205 France 24
208 Bloomberg TV
 
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