Can't play recordings copied between HDR Ts

catnap

Member
I have been copying recordings from one HDR Fox T to another - both running CF (one is 2.15 the other 2.22).

Most were copied from the Humax A to a portable USB drive and then from that USB drive to Humax B. These all seem to play fine on box B.

The rest were copied by removing the HDD from box A and copying to box B using a caddy. These won't play and show the message "This channel is unavailable or scrambled".

Perhaps copying by the second method doesn't properly decrypt the recordings. Can anyone advise? Is there a way to make these recordings playable on box B?

Fortunately, the majority of problem recordings aren't that important (though they must have seemed more so when we first recorded them). Just as well as I've already wiped them from box A.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Perhaps copying by the second method doesn't properly decrypt the recordings. Can anyone advise?
The method you describe doesn't decrypt them at all, in fact the result would be completely corrupted and unrecoverable.

Is there a way to make these recordings playable on box B?
The recordings can only be decrypted by the machine which encrypted them in the first place.

Full information is available starting at Things Every... (click) section 5.
 
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Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
Decryption is part of the process of copying files to USB (when using the remote control), so you will have to copy the files back to Humax A and then use the USB copy method
 
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catnap

Member
Ok. Thanks BH. I hadn't taken account of the clear caution regarding the need to use the "hardware decryption built into the unit that originally encrypted the recordings" although it couldn't be much plainer reading it again now.

I don't think I'll bother to do so, but if I were to put the HDD now in box B back into box A, and copy the unencrypted recordings from it to a USB drive would they then decrypt and would recordings on the same HDD made while it was in Box B be compromised in any way (I appreciate that they would not play on box A)?

Edit - My reply above crossed with Ezra's observation. What would the best way be for copying the files back?
 
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Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
You just need to make the HDR-FOX T2 copy the recordings (and the associated sidecar files) via USB. It does not need to be via the internal HDD. I'd stick one drive into the USB at the front of the HDR-FOX T2 and the other at the back and then use the HDR-FOX T2 to do an external drive to an external drive copy via its usual Media copy functionality. Downside can be that the HD-FOX T2 spec states that the total USB power drain should not be more than 800 and that might add up to 1000 but presumably your caddy has a separate power supply and so you wont be over taxing the PSU or what ever has the 800 limit.
 

MontysEvilTwin

Well-Known Member
You won't know if this will work without trying it out. The HDR-FOX sometimes fails when copying from one external drive to another: it tries to process it as a move operation which subsequently fails. Other times it works OK. I'm not sure why this happens, perhaps it depends on the external drive formats? I've not really tried to troubleshoot the problem.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
You could just copy them onto the HDD currently in unit A (via USB), but only from the original recordings on the ex-unit A HDD (and only StDef, unless HiDef had been unprotected).
 
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catnap

Member
I'll test these option over the next few days as much out of curiosity as anything else. I have never managed to copy between external drives attached to the Humax - I have always got the failed move as described by Evil Twin. This time however I would be using drives both formatted on the Humax - which was never the case before. I'll report back.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
The rest were copied by removing the HDD from box A and copying to box B using a caddy. These won't play and show the message "This channel is unavailable or scrambled".
I don't think I'll bother to do so, but if I were to put the HDD now in box B back into box A, and copy the unencrypted recordings from it to a USB drive would they then decrypt and would recordings on the same HDD made while it was in Box B be compromised in any way (I appreciate that they would not play on box A)?
Let's be clear about what you can expect to work and what you can't.

The process of copying the recordings from HDD A onto HDR B, bearing in mind they were marked as encrypted in the associated .hmt files, will have caused HDR B to try to decrypt them (and believe that it has). The recordings copied onto HDD B will now be marked as not encrypted, but will in fact have been encrypted by HDR A (in the process of recording) and then decrypted using the wrong key by HDR B. The only way to untangle the result would be to cause HDR B to encrypt them again (which we have no means to do*) and mark them as encrypted (which is only a case of manipulating the .hmt files), and then decrypt them by HDR A.

Consequently, your only real chance is is you still have the original recordings on the original HDD in their encrypted state with valid .hmt files. If the original HDD can be reinstalled in HDR A you should be able to copy to USB and obtain decrypted recordings. Alternatively if the original HDD can be hooked up to the USB port on HDR A and then the recording copied into HDR A, again the recordings should be decrypted. No other combination will do.

* unless the encryption / decryption process is symmetrical, so that the encryption transformation is identical to the decryption transformation - I have no data to suggest that it is.
 
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catnap

Member
Thanks for taking the time to provide such a clear and comprehensive explanation BH.

your only real chance is is you still have the original recordings on the original HDD in their encrypted state with valid .hmt files.

No chance then - I reformatted the original HDD.


Fortunately I transferred most of the recordings from the original HDD via USB before ignorance combined with laziness and I removed the drive and copied the remainder to Box B via a caddy tangling and scrambling the results along the way.
 
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catnap

Member
You won't know if this will work without trying it out. The HDR-FOX sometimes fails when copying from one external drive to another: it tries to process it as a move operation which subsequently fails. Other times it works OK. I'm not sure why this happens, perhaps it depends on the external drive formats? I've not really tried to troubleshoot the problem.

Today's findings:

I tested using 4 external drives.

2 x 1TB Freecom USB drives (no additional power source) formatted as NTFS (on a Mac using Paragon). 1 x 500 Gb iomega USB drive (no additional power source) formatted on the Humax. 1 x 500 GB NTFS formatted Seagate HDD in a caddy.

With 2 drives attached to a HDR T2, the only combination where an attempted copy between drives did not instead result in a failed "Move" was copying from the powered Seagate drive to the Humax formatted iomega drive (but not the other way round).

Nothing conclusive there but it may help in showing a pattern.

As an aside, the iomega drive will not show on the Humax if attached before it is switched on - only if attached after it has been switched out of standby.
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
You are aware of course that the HDR-FOX cannot write to an NTFS drive unless you are using the custom firmware ntfs3g package.
 
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catnap

Member
You are aware of course that the HDR-FOX cannot write to an NTFS drive unless you are using the custom firmware ntfs3g package.

Yes - it is installed. Additionally, Macs can't work with NTFS drives without additional software - in my case Paragon. It all works without problem however and allows me to process Humax and other video files on the same drives.
 
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