"Disable AR" for split recordings

[cdmackay]

Does anyone know how the CF handles "Disable AR" with a split recording?

i.e. if I want to record Duck Soup tomorrow morning, which is on:

1020 – 1115

1120 – 1145

i.e. a 5-min split.

It's on Sony Movies Classic, where AR either doesn't work, or isn't used, and so recordings get truncated. It was on a few days ago, and the split caused truncation.

Given there's only a 5 minute split, does that affect what padding I can use with "disable AR"?

It's hard to tell what the CF is doing, since Schedule doesn't seem to reflect manually-added padding.

e.g. I added a 10-min padding, at start and end, but the neither the Schedule list, nor Visual, reflected that, even though that would require both tuners, if the padding were used in the split.

I don't have much of a chance to test it, before tomorrow's recording, hence the question.

I tried searching, but found only one old troll-ridden post about the native UI.

thanks!

 

[prpr]

There's no point using any padding on the separate bits. You might as well just set a single manual recording.
If I were to guess, I'd say you'd get 1010-1125 and 1125-1155, but I never use padding.

In light of information posted subsequently, I'll revise this to 1010-1120 and 1120-1155.

 

[cdmackay]

thanks. Yes, my preferred solution would be a single manual recording covering the entire period. But how do I achieve that (with AR enabled globally)?

 

[cdmackay]

oh! "Manual Event" on the Schedule page.

How on earth was I not aware of that?

thanks again

 

[cdmackay]

RFE: It would be nice if editing an existing scheduled recording would turn it into a full manual event, rather than merely allowing Disable AR and adding padding.

 

[Black Hole]

It would be nice if editing an existing scheduled recording would turn it into a full manual event

It does, if you do that via the SUI (Guide >> Schedule >> (select item) >> OK).

BE AWARE that a manual timer entry has no series properties, nor does it track EPG schedule changes, and the recording will be labelled according to the info data at the time the recording starts.

WARNING: with the timer edit panel on-screen, even if you do not alter any settings, exiting the panel with "OK" will convert the item to a manual timer. If you do not want this, exit using "Cancel" or the Exit button.

It's on Sony Movies Classic, where AR either doesn't work, or isn't used,

If AR didn't work or wasn't used, recordings made using AR would fail. AR is available, but the programme start/end flags are not timed correctly... maybe deliberately.

 

[Black Hole]

RFE: It would be nice if editing an existing scheduled recording would turn it into a full manual event, rather than merely allowing Disable AR and adding padding.

I think you mean "could" (as an option) rather than "would" (as a default).

 

[cdmackay]

thanks BH.

It does, if you do that via the SUI (Guide >> Schedule >> Edit). BE AWARE that a manual timer entry has no series properties, nor does it track EPG schedule changes, and the recording will be labelled according to the info data at the time the recording starts.


If AR didn't work or wasn't used, recordings made using AR would fail. AR is available, but the programme start/end flags are not timed correctly... maybe deliberately.

ho! something else I missed; I never use the SUI for recording, so hadn't noticed that either, thanks.

I think you mean "could" (as an option) rather than "would" (as a default).

I think I meant: it would be nice if the CF had an "Edit" option — instead of just "Disable AR" — that turned a scheduled recording into a full manual event, rather than merely allowing you to specify padding.

Even if it can be done in the SUI: I do a lot of fiddling via CF whilst others are watching the telly, so the SUI isn't available

thanks again.

 

[EEPhil]

BE AWARE that a manual timer entry has no series properties, nor does it track EPG schedule changes, and the recording will be labelled according to the info data at the time the recording starts.

set annoyance/on/level=max
This is also a problem with other Humax models. The whole split recording thing is a PITA. I'm sure the channels that use it do so to clutter up a search with their guff rather than provide a full list of movies films.
I used to set a recording and then try to manually adjust the times. That doesn't work on 2000T, 5000T. You really do have to manually set a timer around the two parts of film. And yes, the recording is wrongly labelled.
set annoyance/off

 

[Black Hole]

Does anyone know how the CF handles "Disable AR" with a split recording?

I don't really understand the problem - mark either element to record (via EPG) and the split mechanism (assuming the broadcaster has set the flags correctly) automatically marks the other element to record (rather like a series recording but not using the series link). This works regardless of AR/AP (Auto-Padding), AFAIK. Padding applies to each element individually, and conflicts are resolved the same as usual (programme takes priority over padding, programme end takes priority over programme start).

The CF "Disable AR" option simply converts any particular schedule entry to auto-padding instead of AR (which is possible in the schedule database but not provided through the SUI). A split programme in the recording schedule (indicated by a jigsaw icon in the EPG) which has been converted to AP should work just as if you had AP as your default.

What you end up with is two recordings (one for each element of the split programme), each with padding applied but with no overlap. End padding on the first half will be forced to terminate at the EPG start time for the second half... so the worst case is that the start of the second half (if it started early) will be at the end of the first recording, and the second recording will continue contiguously. Join the two recordings to get uninterrupted playback.

 

[EEPhil]

Join the two recordings to get uninterrupted playback.

OK, so I don't use a FOX or CF, but have you actually tried this? On other Humaxes this doesn't seem to work as you think. There is a short delay between the first part finishing and the second part starting. Might only be one or two seconds, but it isn't uninterrupted. I've certainly lost bits of a film by letting a Humax pad both parts of a split programme. Back to manual scheduling .

 

[Black Hole]

Might only be one or two seconds, but it isn't uninterrupted

OK, I'll grant you that... but is it so important on the grand scale of things? It's only telly.

As a countermeasure, ensure start padding + end padding < FYI Daily.

 

[cdmackay]

I don't really understand the problem - mark either element to record (via EPG) and the split mechanism (assuming the broadcaster has set the flags correctly) automatically marks the other element to record (rather like a series recording but not using the series link). This works regardless of AR/AP (Auto-Padding), AFAIK. Padding applies to each element individually, and conflicts are resolved the same as usual (programme takes priority over padding, programme end takes priority over programme start).

The CF "Disable AR" option simply converts any particular schedule entry to auto-padding instead of AR (which is possible in the schedule database but not provided through the SUI). A split programme in the recording schedule (indicated by a jigsaw icon in the EPG) which has been converted to AP should work just as if you had AP as your default.

What you end up with is two recordings (one for each element of the split programme), each with padding applied but with no overlap. End padding on the first half will be forced to terminate at the EPG start time for the second half... so the worst case is that the start of the second half (if it started early) will be at the end of the first recording, and the second recording will continue contiguously. Join the two recordings to get uninterrupted playback.

Thanks!

The "problem" was that I didn't know the details you give in your third paragraph; it's not mentioned in the Disable AR wiki, and the Schedule view doesn't (neither list nor visual) indicate padding, so it wasn't clear what happens to padding in the "split", e.g. if the double-padding is larger than the split time. But you've now explained that, and clearly that would have worked for me, thanks!

In the end I went with a fully manual recording, which I'd also forgotten how to do.

minor nit: putting button-actions at the end of a long list, e.g. like at the bottom of Schedule, means fools will forget they're there

 

[Black Hole]

The "problem" was that I didn't know the details you give in your third paragraph; it's not mentioned in the Disable AR wiki

That's normal operation for AP – all Disable AR does is invoke normal AP. Amongst the very early discussions on this forum was exactly what AR and AP do.

Things Every... (click) section 3

https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/accurate-recording-ar-padding-and-lost-series-links.858/ (see "Recording Priorities")

 

[cdmackay]

That's normal operation for AP – all Disable AR does is invoke normal AP. Amongst the very early discussions on this forum was exactly what AR and AP do.

Things Every... (click) section 3

https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/accurate-recording-ar-padding-and-lost-series-links.858/ (see "Recording Priorities")

sorry, I'm not making myself clear…

what wasn't explained is what happens within padding on a split recording. e.g. does the padding also get applied in the split? What happens if the total padding (post part 1 plus pre part 2) is greater than the split time between the parts?

You've now explained that (thank you again), but I don't see that in the links above. Perhaps it's considered obvious, but it wasn't to me.

 

[Black Hole]

You're right, split programmes have not been discussed explicitly, but I have every expectation the AR/AP system would treat them as separate recordings. Evidence: the sections record to separate files. AR/AP is a function of the recording system; series linking / split linking is a function of the scheduling system. Think of split linking as another form of series linking and you've got it.

 

[EEPhil]

Certainly for other Humaxes using the SUI for split recordings with padding the result is two separate files. When, as is usually the case for me, the padding exceeds the annoying added programme in the split., I lose some of the film. I usually use a 2 minute before, 5 minute after padding. I remember doing a short test for some reason a number of years ago showing the padding effect on consecutive programmes (not split) see here. Hence I have resorted to manual programming the split programme into one recording (with the wrong name).

Think of split linking as another form of series linking and you've got it

See Series link and split programmes (Pick, Your TV etc) for my experience of that!

 

[Black Hole]

When, as is usually the case for me, the padding exceeds the annoying added programme in the split., I lose some of the film.

Are you saying there is (more than a couple of seconds of) movie missing from the combined recordings? Is all start padding cancelled if any of the start padding conflicts with end padding?

See Series link and split programmes (Pick, Your TV etc) for my experience of that!

Yeah, well, in theory anyway. Unco-operative broadcast authorities notwithstanding.