Electricity blues... and greens, and reds...

mike_m

Active Member
Growing up during an era of relatively cheap electricity, and armed with a schoolboys’ understanding of power consumption (‘watts = volts x amps’ just about sums it up), I have always dismissed electronics – and even domestic lighting - from serious consideration when thinking about the cost of power, because the wattage consumed by such devices is paltry compared to, say, the old 3-bar fire that used to heat the living room in my first house.

So I confess I have gone through life without really worrying about whether I leave lights switched on when I leave a room, or if I keep a computer running 24/7. In my mind, that’s always been ‘just a few quid a year’. However, a letter from SSE warning of rising prices (to an eye-watering 28p/kwh, in our case) has prompted me to go round the house and tot up what we spend on all those few quids’ worths.

The two Hummys are on 24/7 (except for a half-hour break), so (assuming a max power consumption of 28 watts) they cost me abut £140 a year in power. Putting them on standby for the time they’re not used would probably save me about £100 a year. Well, that’s not trifling, but it’s not going to make much of a dent in the leccy bill next year.

What was far more interesting was when I worked out the cost of running the halogen track lighting in my kitchen and computer room. This was considered to be energy-saving in 2003, when it was installed; I have stubbornly refused to change to LEDs because I simply hate the look that LEDs have - even the supposed 'warm white' ones – I call it the ‘corpse light’ effect. These lights are in dark parts of the house and so they’re on most of the time, and I worked out that they will cost us a staggering £900 next year – so now I’m finally replacing them with LEDs, which should cost about £130 per year to run. The hardware (new tracks, spots and bulbs – the old stuff won’t support LEDs) will come to about £300, so it’s a no-brainer.

Now I just have to get used to that awful light....
 
Now I just have to get used to that awful light....
Our house has been entirely LED for a few years (except for the cooker hood and oven lights and the loft light - an old florescent tube).
The colours are fine for the most part, except the dining room one which is a bit corpsy. But even with a tungsten bulb it wasn't great and I think it's partly the shade which is swmbo's choice.

Anyway, if you're getting a lot I'd suggest buying samples of likely candidates to see if one maker's colour is nicer than another.
Our living room has a few IKEA lights which are es fittings with IKEA bulbs which seem good as are the IKEA under unit strips in the kitchen.
Most of the rest are Tesco, except for the daylight strips in the kitchen, hall and garage which are from TLC. (There are 5 along the length of the kitchen - she likes it bright; I have to shade my eyes - which total 110W, so I do get annoyed when they are left on unattended.)
 
Anyway, if you're getting a lot I'd suggest buying samples of likely candidates to see if one maker's colour is nicer than another.
Good advice... I've ordered some GU10 spot heads and a few bulbs from a number of sources, and will check them out.
 
I posted this site for BH when he was asking about beam angles a while ago but it has a lot of guides and info that may be of interest here too.
 
so now I’m finally replacing them with LEDs,
One other thing is that light distribution is often very different.

For 'halogen' spots the LEDs tends to have much less distinct beam patterns (more gradual/fuzzy drop of brightness at the edges) than the originals. The beam angles given in the data sheets are very misleading and (in my experience) aren't remotely equivalent.

For ordinary light bulbs the LEDs usually have less light in the direction of the cap (ie. upward in a pendant fitting) because the lump of electronics is in the way. This can dramatically reduce the light thrown onto and therefore reflected from the ceiling, which can make a huge difference to overall illumination and appearance.
A globe style bulb (100mm or more diam) might better here as they put more out above the horizontal than the usual GLS style. Again maybe worth buying one to test in various places.
 
to an eye-watering 28p/kwh, in our case
I've had notice of similar, but that's "only" a 33% increase. My standing charge (electricity) however is doubling! Where did that come from, is this to subsidise smart meters or bail outs or what?

My gas price is doubling, with little increase in standing charge.
 
I tried to warn you all
" It looks like all fixed deals will be going up very soon so grab one quick if you can "

I still have until October 2024 with my present EDF deal before I have to stuff my jumper with newspapers and wear a balaclava indoors, hopefully things will be better by then.

Electricity​
Fix Total Service Sep24v2​
Standing charge
(pence per kWh)
19.84p​
Unit rate
(pence per kWh)
19.89p​

Gas​
Fix Total Service Sep24v2​
Standing charge
(pence per kWh)
19.82p​
Unit rate
(pence per kWh)
3.898p​
 
For folks who are replacing "low voltage" (e.g.12v) bulbs with LED versions. Before you wholesale commit to a particular setup, I suggest you do a test:

With the lights off, tune a FM radio to a channel of your choice (may be worth repeating at differing frequencies)

Turn on the LEDs and carry the radio around the house.

I don't believe the problem is with LEDs as such , the conversion from say 12v to 5v compounded by doing so inside a very small space (e.g bulb holder) some ways of doing this pump out huge amounts of RF.

So, 240v LED is usually OK as requires an actual PSU (240V AC -> 5v DC)

[ The FM Fog may well extend beyond your property and affect your neighbours etc]
 
I fitted 5" dia LED's to the three toilets/bathroom and get FM interference on a low power local community radio station only, all other stations are ok. I have a dedicated FM aerial but we're in a hollow and the reception volume is stronger on the HDRfoxT2.
 
I fitted 5" dia LED's to the three toilets/bathroom and get FM interference on a low power local community radio station only, all other stations are ok. I have a dedicated FM aerial but we're in a hollow and the reception volume is stronger on the HDRfoxT2.
240v ones ? or conversion of old 12v ? The issue is only WRT low (e.g. 12v) voltage systems
 
For folks who are replacing "low voltage" (e.g.12v) bulbs with LED versions. Before you wholesale commit to a particular setup, I suggest you do a test:
Thanks for the warning! I'm not sure that I understand which are the problem bulbs, though; in my case, I'm replacing regular mains voltage bulbs (bayonet, ES, SES) directly with various LED equivalents - presumably they are transforming down from 230v within the bulb itself. Some of them are on dimmers, which I have replaced with modern trailing-edge versions. The old track lights (non-dimming) have transformer boxes for each spot, while the actual tracks are mains voltage. I'm replacing each spot with a new spot head that takes a GU10 bulb, and I'm putting LEDs in them - once again, I assume all the transforming is done within the bulb.

However, the bathroom downlighters were the sort that each had a transformer in the loft space above; I've replaced them with LED downlighters that each have a transformer box in the loft - I supect these might be the sort you mean? Anyway, I did the FM radio check, and could hear nothing unusual, so I'm hoping they're OK.
 
My gas price is doubling, with little increase in standing charge.
Ouch! Being out in the sticks we don't get gas, so we're on kerosene for CH, LPG cylinders for the hob, and electric for everything else. Kerosene price has doubled since the last fill in January, so that'll be a shock at the next fill.
 
presumably they are transforming down from 230v within the bulb itself.
Technically, I wouldn't call it "transforming", but yes - it contains some electronics to change high-voltage-low-current AC into low-voltage-high-current DC.

Some of them are on dimmers, which I have replaced with modern trailing-edge versions.
And how is that going for you? It amazes me the LED bulb industry can't work out how to measure the duty cycle (leading edge or trailing edge) and dim a LED bulb with a similar characteristic as an incandescent would have.
 
Thanks for the warning! I'm not sure that I understand which are the problem bulbs, though; in my case, I'm replacing regular mains voltage bulbs (bayonet, ES, SES) directly with various LED equivalents - presumably they are transforming down from 230v within the bulb itself. Some of them are on dimmers, which I have replaced with modern trailing-edge versions. The old track lights (non-dimming) have transformer boxes for each spot, while the actual tracks are mains voltage. I'm replacing each spot with a new spot head that takes a GU10 bulb, and I'm putting LEDs in them - once again, I assume all the transforming is done within the bulb.

However, the bathroom downlighters were the sort that each had a transformer in the loft space above; I've replaced them with LED downlighters that each have a transformer box in the loft - I supect these might be the sort you mean? Anyway, I did the FM radio check, and could hear nothing unusual, so I'm hoping they're OK.
The ones that caused me problems were in a bathroom ceiling , where each bulb had a transformer (heavy so probably actually a transformer) but it took the voltage down from 240v to 12v (for Halagon , IIRC) then the bulb had some internal "gadget" to take it from 12v to 5v .... this latter caused the issues. I think I tried 3 sets, the 2nd set were from John Lewis and were really bad (loads of RF) 3rd set were fine. It's not even a case of more expensive is better, just need to try each time :-(

[ I'm not an electrician , so this is all "as best I understand" ] comments here might shed some light :) --> https: // conversation .which .co .uk/technology/led-bulb-radio-interference-dab-test/
 
And how is that going for you? It amazes me the LED bulb industry can't work out how to measure the duty cycle (leading edge or trailing edge) and dim a LED bulb with a similar characteristic as an incandescent would have.
Well, the dimmers work, but some of the lights (the bathroom downlighters are the worst) have a high minimum threshold when dimmed - their lowest value is still quite bright, and below that they simply go off. I've used "programming" function on the dimmers to set the minimum value, but I gather that it's the LED itself that determines the threshold. The best are the G9 LEDs in the picture lights - they can dim down to practically nothing.

Apart from the threshold problem, there's the issue of colour temperature. Although the bathroom downlighters have a switch on the back to set what they call cool, natural or warm white the problem is that when they dim, they just become a darker shade of the same temperature - the same effect as mixing black paint into a pale colour. The result is that as the LED dims, it appears greyer and greyer, giving rise to what I call the 'corpse light' effect.

So I've been reading up on what they call the Blackbody Line (you probably know all about this, but I didn't!), which is the natural curve in colour temperature followed by a white-hot piece of metal as it cools. The cooler it gets, the more red it appears - the colour temperature changes as it dims. We see the same effect (though for different reasons) when the sun sets, so millions of years of evolution have ensured that we see it as the 'natural' way that light should dim. An incandescent bulb naturally changes colour temperature as it dims, because basically it's just a cooling piece of metal. I believe that the LED industry has not yet cracked the problem of changing an LED's colour temperature - it's fixed in the chemistry - so they can only change its brightness, not its colour. I'm sure it would be possible to use the new combined RGB LEDs and vary the combination to follow a natural curve, but I don't think anyone has thought of doing it for a regular dimmer.

Anyway enough of that - it's time for Countryfile!
 
I remember Robin Page saying Countryfile 'is an idealised version of the countryside for knobs and townies'. Still makes me smile that one :)
Yes, my neighbour (a farmer) calls it 'Towniefile'. I have to say I think he's right - I tend to turn the volume down and read a book, and just watch the bits about farming or land management - increasingly rare though - can't stand the segments about growing sustainable herbs in recycled shipping containers, or carving pointless artworks from tree stumps. Or yet another bloody potter selling 'handcrafted' mugs for £45 to gullible townies. My neighbour watches Clarkson's Farm instead, and says all his friends do, too - which is ironic, since Clarkson gets paid more per episode than most farmers will make in a lifetime.
 
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