Finding freq. and symbol rate info.

terryb

New Member
Hi All,

I have a Humax Foxsat HDR and on it I can receive more>movies, movies4men and movies4men+1, I also have an elderly (like me!) Fortec Star 4200 which for some reason will not receive these channels, I've looked up the frequencies and the polarity and symbol rate for all three and added them into the Fortec but no joy (story of my life!). Since I can access these channels on the Humax I thought I could match the freq. etc. from that but I don't know how to access the information, is this part of the hidden menu? or am I missing something obvious? I have taken the freq. etc. from the Lyng Sat site which has all this info. it lists them as being on Astra 2F which I found odd as it lists also it being Europe ku rather than UK.

Any ideas?

Terry B
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Thanks for that Graham, I checked on the humax that the freq. etc. matched that of the chart you supplied and added the details to the TP list, it found 6 TV programmes on that channel and I did a single sat. scan on Astra 2F and there they were! ah yes bit of a problem, the 6 they found were all ITV+1 or ITV 1, so I did the same on Astra 2A but the same result all ITV, I have some old Lyngsat charts and tried some old Freq. etc. but as was expected there was nothing found. How can I check which satellite the Humax is looking at? opt+ gives me the freq. etc. but not the satellite name, the other thing that occurs to me is are these programmes HD because my Fortec box is only SD.

Terry B
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Your box cannot differentiate between satellites at the same orbital point, selecting a specific satellite won't do anything. (It could be any of the Astra Group at 28.2E or Eutelsat 28A at 28.5E). All you need is the basic details Frequency, Polarisation, Standard, Modulation, Symbol Rate and FEC. Your SD box won't be able to receive any transponders using DVB-S2, HD AVC264/AVC channels and may not be able to get even SD channels that happen to use non standard FEC.

Astra will move a transponder seamlessly from one satellite to a new replacement, the transfer is seamless provided the parameters are the same.

Post a transponder you can get on the Foxsat and nothing on the fta box.
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Hi again Graham, interesting response, my Foxsat has the facility to add satellites, the original list, because it's so old doesn't show Astra 2E, 2F or Eutelsat they just didn't exist when it was made, there was Astra 2A,2B,2D and Eurobird 1, but it does have the facility to add satellites, type in the name and the position and then scan, it then puts them in a separate menu under the satellite name. So accordingly I have added Astra 2A, Astra 2E and Astra 2F and Eutelsat 18A (which was called Eurobird 1), I have deleted Astra 2A,2B,2D because it no longer exists and if I keep too many satellites in the list the poor old box runs out of space! Because each satellite is listed separately it is possible to click on each programme and its freq. etc. are displayed this is how I know that I have loaded Astra 2F freq. 12633 Symbol rate 22000 polarised H, exactly what I put in the TP list, incidently this also matches the details I gleaned using opt+ (your info Thanks) on the Humax, it might help if I could see the SID on the Humax and compare it to the Fortec not that I know how to do this or in fact how to input the SID on the Fortec.

I have to say I was a little confused by your last comment, I don't know exactly what you mean, do you mean post a programme I can receive on the Foxsat that seems to be unavailable on the Humax?

Life is full of challenges don't you find that?

Terry B
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
There is no need or point in separately listing an individual satellite, only an orbital point. Over time Astra have replaced satellites with new ones (Astra 2D is now defunct). Usually the new satellite simply replaces the existing transponder with the same parameters (including the SID). Any box will continue to work as before, they have no way of separately locating an individual satellite (they move about anyway to stop them banging in to each other). Provided your database contains the current details it should not make any difference unless the service is now on a transponder with identical parameters but a different beam shape. Many in Europe have lost UK services not because the parameters have changed, simply because they are now on tight UK spot beams.

You should be able to watch any channel you can watch on a Freesat box on a fta box, subject to the limits I already posted (In that case you need a more advanced fta box).

I actually said

Post a transponder you can get on the Foxsat and nothing on the fta box.
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Hi Graham me again, let me deal with the points you raised in you last missive in the order they appear, whether there is any point in listing satellites or not is neither here nor there, Fortec have done this, your next point is a little difficult to answer, perhaps new satellites do replace old ones on the same transponder ( by this I take you to mean the freq. symbol rate and polarity ) but not always, I had old Lyngsat charts that showed a station on completely different freq. etc. to the one it is on now, it is fair to say that modern boxes ( the Fortec is not one of these! ) will auto matically scan and find a station that has moved, an old box (like mine) may require the operator ( grand title ) to find and manually input the new parameters. Your next point may be valid I don't know I have attached some pictures of my screen that imply differently but I am not technically au fey enough to agree or dispute your premise, finally your last point isn't relevant since although we are unfortunately now part of Europe politically I am still in UK, the basic focus of the Astra satellite.
50620001.JPG50620002.JPG50620003.JPG50620004.JPG50620005.JPG50620006.JPG50620007.JPG50620009.JPG
I hope this is what you meant when you said post a transponder if not my apologies, my apologies also for the shaky images too, I have arthritis in my hands and the battery was going on the camera and that's it I can't think of any more excuses!

Ok that's it over to you Mr Starter as they say.


Terry B
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
It may be an idea to edit post #7 and replace the the uploaded pictures with thumbnails rather than full size
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
Simply looking for a channel that you can watch on the Foxsat (and it's transponder if it's say a BBC SD region as these exist on more than 1 transponder) and you can't watch on the generic free to air box. The satellite name at the top doesn't matter provided you have the full transponder details for the channels you want to find in the database for that transponder. The box only knows that the signal comes from 28.2/28.5E, whatever the name is it will pick out that signal (it's unique at that orbital point). You cannot have more than 1 satellite at 28.2/28.5E using the same parameters.

For example if you add the following parameters to the database for Astra 2D

10714 H DVB-S QPSK
22000 5/6


It will find a load of Channel 4 programmes (that are actually from Astra 2E), Even though Astra 2D is not in service.
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
There you go Ezra, although what difference that made I'm not sure.

Hi Graham, I think I understand, duh, sorry to be a bit thick, but I still don't understand how to get my missing channels, I certainly had them before we moved and I seem to be able to get all the others that I had, I have got something other than ITV on Eurobird 1 using the same freq. etc. it seems to be possibly an Italian radio programme (?) since there is no picture only audio, beats me!

Terry B
 

Ezra Pound

Well-Known Member
There you go Ezra, although what difference that made I'm not sure.
The suggestion was to keep the large uploaded images, but to insert them into your post using 'thumbnail' like these :-

thumbnail.jpg thumbnail2.jpg
Click on the above images to enlarge them
I would have used your images from #7, but the attachment links are not working
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Right start again!

I have reinstated the pictures in my last post.

Hi again Graham,

The missing channels are ...

more>movies Astra 2F 12552 V 22000 5/6

more>movies+1 Astra 2F 12633 H 22000 5/6

movies4men Astra 2F 12633 H 22000 5/6

movies4men+1 Astra 2F 12633 H 22000 5/6

The figures above are from the chart you sent me (thanks for that) they are all DVBS and QPSK whatever that means!, there are others but I figured that if I find out how to add these I could add others at a later date.

Any ideas?

Terry B
 

grahamlthompson

Well-Known Member
There are now no channels on 12552 V. 12633 H you should find the channels you list. It's possible you have some local interference at this frequency. Try switching off/moving cordless phones and W-Fi routers.
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Hello Graham, right that's confused me!, those are the figures from kingofsat! so where are these programmes now? have you got the co-ordinates please?

I have just had a look on lyngsat and they show them all on Astra 2F but interestingly enough not listed as UK but Europe Ku whatever that is!? but the co-ordinates are as the kingofsat have said, so even more confusion!

Ain't life grand?

Terry B
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Hi Graham, me again!

The Humax and the Fortec are connected to the same dish and I've got 100% on both channels of the Humax and 90% on the Fortec (this set is on quite a long cable so the drop is probably due to signal loss over distance) so the scanner is correctly positioned and, yes I got the co-ordinates from dishpointer.com when I set up the dish a couple of months ago, there are no buildings or structures to cause any problems. What I don't understand is all the programmes on Astra 2F 12633 H 22000 are ITV or ITV+1. There is a facility on my Fortec box to do a TP scan on any given Transponder so I tried on both 12552 V 22000 and 12633 H 22000 dialling in the APID, VPID and PCR PID but it came back "no programme found", I'm running out of ideas.

Terry B
 
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terryb

terryb

New Member
Hello again Graham, yes with Fortec box disconnected I still get the channels on the Humax, as yet I haven't tried it the other way round, 'Er indoors would go nuts if I suddenly marched in and turned off the Humax in the middle of "The Chase" ! but anything is worth a go so as soon as the coast is clear I'll try that.

Terry B
 
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