Foxsat + diseqc'd = loss of some channels

[cyberdude]

On the weekend I connected a second dish pointing to Astra 19.2E to receive RTL for the F1. I followed the guide posted here which all went well. In summary, 28.8E on diseqc'd input 1, 19.2E on diseqc'd input 2, the output into LNB1 on the Foxsat. I have a loop from the LNB out to LNB2 on the Foxsat. I'm running the Media and Fileserver bundle and used the Channel Editor to make RTL visible in Freesat mode. So far so good. The problem I have now found is that I seem to have lost some of the Freesat channels when recording another Freesat channel. the same thing when I view RTL then some of the other channels are not receivable.

Some examples of the problems:
Was recording ch138 and lost ITV on ch103 and other channels seem to have gone. They just showed no signal or transmission scrambled.
Cannot record BBC1 ch101, even when viewing ch101 and nothing else recording. Just get the icon of the circle with a diagonal line through it.
If I retune in Freesat mode then all the Freesat channels record and view fine but of course I lose the 19.2E stuff.

It's as though I only have one tuner working on one polarity. Have I got a messed up setup or is this normal? When viewing something through input 1 of the diseqc'd is inputl 2 completely ignored or does it still feed the tuner?

 

[Trev]

... the output into LNB1 on the Foxsat. I have a loop from the LNB out to LNB2 on the Foxsat.

As it appears that you only have one input from your dis(s), when recording one program, this limits what you can watch at the same time, as I believe that you can omnly watch/record from one transponder. I don't think that this is anything to do with your dual dish setup.

 

[cyberdude]

Thanks for the reply. I know about the limitations of having only one input from the dish. The thing is, before I added the other dish and diseqc'd I had no trouble recording and viewing other channels. I verified this by retuning in Freesat mode (doing a channel search on the screen that requests your postcode) and I was able to record ch138 and view ITV on ch 103, so something else is amiss.

 

[Trev]

I think you'l have to wait 'till grahamthompson pops along to tell you what's what then

 

[cyberdude]

Trev, I stand corrected After experimenting again last night, it seems that actually, I cannot record ch138 and watch ch103 as I previously said I was able to do. I don't know what made me believe that it worked before (what's strange is that I was convinced I tried it and it worked) but it doesn't due to the reason you mentioned. I looked up the channels on kingofsat and ch138 (Horror) is polarised H and ch103 (ITV1 London) is polarised V so wouldn't work with a single tuner.

 

[Trev]

Does not one channel H and the other V indicate they are from different transponder? Am probably wrong (I usually am) but at least you have have identified your current problem.
As you now seem to have a Foxsat HDR have you given up on the B&Q setup that you were asking about in the other forum? Or was that not you, just someone with almost the same username?

 

[grahamlthompson]

I think you'l have to wait 'till grahamthompson pops along to tell you what's what then

I'm here

Not sure how the diseqc switch is affecting the issue except that if tuner 1 is using 19.2E then tuner 2 can only access 19.2E transponders not 28.2/28.5E.

In single cable mode tuner 1 has control of the lnb, tuner 2 has no control it can only access the same subset of the full channel arrangement as tuner 1 is using.

A lnb operates in two frequency modes (Bands) High/Low - required to cover the full frequency range.

In addition transponders can have vertical or horizontal polarisation (this allows less gap between the frequencies used by adjacent transponders so you can get more in the same space)

So tuner 1 switches the lnb into one of of 4 modes. High Frequency - Horizontal (HBH), High Frequency - Vertical (HBV), Low Frequency - Horizontal (LBH) and Low Frequency Vertical (LBV).

The second tuner of a hdr in single cable mode can only access channels that fit into the same mode as tuner 1 current channel is in.

You always have a 3rd viewing option while recording two.

If both recordings happen to be from the same transponder then you can 3rd view any other channel within the same mode.

If both recordings are from different transponders then you can view a 3rd channel sharing a transponder with either recording.

http://humaxgoodies.weebly.com/freesat-channels-by-transponder.htmlLBV

 

[cyberdude]

Thanks Graham. So basically, what I wanted to achieve is not possible with my current setup. I was messing around with this so much over the weekend that I think I got myself truly confused with it all.

@Trev. I've always had the Humas HDR. It wasn't me asking about the B&Q setup although I have posted in other forums with the same username.

As my 28.2E feed is from a communal dish and there is only one feed from there, I think the easiest solution is to get a cheap receiver to use for 19.2E and RTL and use the Humax Foxsat for receiving BBC R5L.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Thanks Graham. So basically, what I wanted to achieve is not possible with my current setup. I was messing around with this so much over the weekend that I think I got myself truly confused with it all.

@Trev. I've always had the Humas HDR. It wasn't me asking about the B&Q setup although I have posted in other forums with the same username.

As my 28.2E feed is from a communal dish and there is only one feed from there, I think the easiest solution is to get a cheap receiver to use for 19.2E and RTL and use the Humax Foxsat for receiving BBC R5L.

It's possible but you will need to change your postcode to put one of the Horizontal polarisation ITV1 regions at 103. You will still have ITV1 London on 977 and you can use customise channels to put BBC 1 London back at 101. Thames Valley or Meridian should do it.

 

[Trev]

Not wishing to hijack cyberdude's thread (which I seem to be doing anyway) but it's strongly related (getting F1) and basically requires a (perhaps qualified) yes/no answer. I have a quad O/P LNB on 28E using two of the O/Ps to my Humax. Can I put up a dish pointing 19E and put diseqc switch in one of the feed cables and thus switch one I/P to my Foxsat PVR between 28E and 19E?

@ Cyberdude. Sorry, my mistake, the user that I was referring to on the other place was Meggie-dude not cyberdude

 

[grahamlthompson]

Not wishing to hijack cyberdude's thread (which I seem to be doing anyway) but it's strongly related (getting F1) and basically requires a (perhaps qualified) yes/no answer. I have a quad O/P LNB on 28E using two of the O/Ps to my Humax. Can I put up a dish pointing 19E and put diseqc switch in one of the feed cables and thus switch one I/P to my Foxsat PVR between 28E and 19E?

@ Cyberdude. Sorry, my mistake, the user that I was referring to on the other place was Meggie-dude not cyberdude

Yes you can

http://foxsat-hdr.wikispaces.com/DiSEqC

You may be able to add a 19.2E lnb to your existing dish using an offset bracket.

eg

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MULTI-LNB...Freeview_RL&hash=item3a719b2334#ht_1078wt_932

However you can only watch one of them at once even though you can record both. If planning to use R5L as an audio source for RTL video you need a seperate pvr (A Freeview SD one will do) or a DAB tuner with live pause.

 

[Trev]

Thanks for the info grayham. I'll do some reading now you have pointed me at something to read Not quite sure of the inference in your last sentence

 

[grahamlthompson]

Thanks for the info grayham. I'll do some reading now you have pointed me at something to read Not quite sure of the inference in your last sentence

The work around for watching Formula 1 is to use the German Channel RTL for the Video and Radio5Live for the audio (delayed by a second or two to sync with the video). Although you can probably record both on a Foxsat-hdr as you can only listen to one at a time it's useless for watching F1 live. You need a time shiftable seperate source for the audio. Son In Law used a cheap fta box for the video and a HDR FOX T2 linked to his Stereo Amp for the audio to watch the Aussie race live.

 

[Trev]

Ah, now I understand it, thanks Grayham. It was the time shift between the R5L and the RTL that I had 'missed'. Ahah, I could use my Hummy 9200 to delay R5L couldn't I? Must have a look at the twin LNB setup. I have a spare one

 

[grahamlthompson]

. Ahah, I could use my Hummy 9200 to delay R5L couldn't I?

You could indeed assuming you have something to listen to the audio on other than the telly.

 

[cyberdude]

The work around for watching Formula 1 is to use the German Channel RTL for the Video and Radio5Live for the audio (delayed by a second or two to sync with the video). Although you can probably record both on a Foxsat-hdr as you can only listen to one at a time it's useless for watching F1 live. You need a time shiftable seperate source for the audio. Son In Law used a cheap fta box for the video and a HDR FOX T2 linked to his Stereo Amp for the audio to watch the Aussie race live.

Graham, just a quick question. Is there a minimum time the the Humax Foxsat HDR can pause a transmission for? I ask because last weekend when I was trying to pause the RTL feed by about 15s and it would often just drop back out to the live transmission. I found I had to pause nearer to 18-20s to keep it from dropping out. Would the delay be less for a radio transmission as the data stream isn't quite as heavy?

 

[grahamlthompson]

Graham, just a quick question. Is there a minimum time the the Humax Foxsat HDR can pause a transmission for? I ask because last weekend when I was trying to pause the RTL feed by about 15s and it would often just drop back out to the live transmission. I found I had to pause nearer to 18-20s to keep it from dropping out. Would the delay be less for a radio transmission as the data stream isn't quite as heavy?

Not afaik (I will do some tests), you have to record for at least 30 seconds before it will store a recording (usually use chasing playback). It takes about 30 seconds before a recording appears in the media list. There is a maximum before the time shift buffer starts over and that is bitrate dependent.

 

[cyberdude]

Not afaik (I will do some tests), you have to record for at least 30 seconds before it will store a recording (usually use chasing playback). It takes about 30 seconds before a recording appears in the media list. There is a maximum before the time shift buffer starts over and that is bitrate dependent.

I know about recording for at least 30s before the recoding appears in the media list. It's the chasing playback delay, i.e. pause live transmission and then press play to chase play, that I was referring to. For TV it seems to be that you need to pause for close to 20s to allow chase play otherwise it drops back to live transmission. I'll do some tests today and see if the delay for radio is lower than TV, i.e. bitrate dependant.

 

[grahamlthompson]

Tested it on the Foxsat-hdr last night and yes mine's the same. The problem doesn't exist on the Humax Freeview HD boxes. My Son In Law paused Radio5L for 2 seconds using a HDR FOX T2 and I have just done the same on BBC1 on a HD FOX T2.