HDR _FOX--T2 Disk Problems

[oldpaul100]

Bought our HDR FoxT2 in Sep 2011 and has worked well until recently when Recording started freezing for a few seconds and then carrying on (after TV said no signal or scrambled channel). Looked on here and found some suggestions.
Have now installed Custom firmware and run a Maintenance fixdisk. After about 3 hours it just reported some small changes but when got back to GUI got the following result:

SMART Status
PASSED
Model Family Seagate Pipeline HD 5900.2
Device Model ST31000424CS
Serial Number 5VX1FHGV
LU WWN Device Id 5 000c50 037d741ea
Firmware Version SC13
User Capacity 1,000,204,886,016 bytes [1.00 TB]
Sector Size 512 bytes logical/physical
Rotation Rate 5900 rpm
Device is In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is ATA8-ACS T13/1699-D revision 4
SATA Version is SATA 2.6, 3.0 Gb/s (current: 3.0 Gb/s)
Local Time is Tue Sep 27 12:55:05 2016 BST
SMART support is Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is Enabled
Attributes
ID Name Flags Raw Value Value Worst Threshold Life Left Notes
1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate POSR-- 133644834 117 099 006
-
3 Spin_Up_Time PO---- 0 095 093 000
-
4 Start_Stop_Count -O--CK 9114 092 092 020 90% -
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct PO--CK 404 091 091 036 86% -
7 Seek_Error_Rate POSR-- 227502533 083 060 030
-
9 Power_On_Hours -O--CK 7718 092 092 000 92% -
10 Spin_Retry_Count PO--C- 0 100 100 097 100% -
12 Power_Cycle_Count -O--CK 4557 096 096 020 95% -
184 End-to-End_Error -O--CK 0 100 100 099
-
187 Reported_Uncorrect -O--CK 0 100 100 000
-
188 Command_Timeout -O--CK 12885098499 100 099 000
-
189 High_Fly_Writes -O-RCK 58 042 042 000
-
190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel -O---K 34 066 (34°C) 044 (56°C) 045 (55°C)
In_the_past
194 Temperature_Celsius -O---K 34 034 056 000
-
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered -O-RC- 133644834 045 034 000
-
197 Current_Pending_Sector -O--C- 0 100 100 000
-
198 Offline_Uncorrectable ----C- 0 100 100 000
-
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count -OSRCK 0 200 200 000
-
Self-test logs
No. Description Status Remaining When First Error LBA
# 1 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7716 -
# 2 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7710 -
# 3 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7710 -
# 4 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7693 -
# 5 Short offline Completed without error 00% 7505 -

The re-allocated Sector count is flagged RED and has increased from from 393 to 404 since running this last night. It appeares fixdisk has not improved the situatation. I'm not clear what the next step might be or who or what controls this count. I gather it must be the cause of our problems but need follow-up suggestions as this does not seem to have been mention in hummy.tv page 'Maintenance Mode Disk Check'. Is the disk repairable without doing a reformat (so loosing stored programs) or is it time to install a new disk?

More fundamently is it time to upgrade to the Freeview Play system?
Also having found the Hidden Service Menu is there a page that descibes the functions and use of those commands? Not immediately obvious what they do!
Thanks
Rendered in: 1.009 seconds

 

[RobH1]

We've had our FoxT2 since 2010 and we get the 'no signal scrambled channel' on one in three HD recordings, but it has never failed to record, so I ignore it.

 

[oldpaul100]

Sorry about the heading! Finger slipped when trying to correct d to D. How 2 became - I don't know.
Put it down to my age (a very senior citizen as they say) as I won't see 80 again!
I've checked the fix-disk log file and it doesn't show anything significant.
sda3 reported Pass 5: Checking group summary information, File System was modified
sda1 had its File System Modfied on pass 5 on 'Checking group summary information'.
sda2 also said after Pass 5: Checking group summary information, File System Modified.
Otherwise nothing else was reported. I'm not a fan of Unix and it's idiosyncrasies so I find
it very hard to untangle any useful information. I'more familair with MS type of files where every step
and result is listed in decending order of time.

Thanks RobH1 but we find the pauses very disruptive, esp in a critical event say in Poldark!
Is this effect caused by the increasing number of Re-allocated Sectors? I'm not clear what this indicates about the disk.
Is it the disk which re-allocates the sectors and when?
BTW how do you get the data out of the putty.exe window? Every time I try to copy and paste the Telnet Menu just goes beserk and repeats each line as an input to the command line!

 

[MontysEvilTwin]

The re-allocated Sector count is flagged RED and has increased from from 393 to 404 since running this last night. It appeares fixdisk has not improved the situatation. I'm not clear what the next step might be or who or what controls this count. I gather it must be the cause of our problems but need follow-up suggestions as this does not seem to have been mention in hummy.tv page 'Maintenance Mode Disk Check'. Is the disk repairable without doing a reformat (so loosing stored programs) or is it time to install a new disk?

More fundamently is it time to upgrade to the Freeview Play system?
Also having found the Hidden Service Menu is there a page that descibes the functions and use of those commands? Not immediately obvious what they do!
Thanks
Rendered in: 1.009 seconds

Reallocated sectors are flagged red to highlight that they are there. When a sector becomes unreadable the disk stops using it, using a spare sector on another part of the disk instead (reallocation). Keep an eye on it as regular reallocation of sectors is a sign that your disk is on the way out. From the numbers you don't need to change it yet. I think some people have still used disks with a couple of thousand reallocated sectors. However, if there is anything on there you want to keep I would copy it now and plan to replace the disk before too long, particularly if the regular reallocation of sectors continues.
There is a page on the wiki that describes the hidden menu functions.

 

[MartinLiddle]

Is this effect caused by the increasing number of Re-allocated Sectors? I'm not clear what this indicates about the disk.
Is it the disk which re-allocates the sectors and when?

404 reallocated sectors is not enormous but if the glitch whilst reallocating is irritating then changing the hard drive will fix the problem. It isn't a difficult job and a suitable drive for a PVR will cost about £50 eg http://www.ebuyer.com/337318-seagate-1tb-3-5-sata-video-hard-drive-st1000vm002

At the moment it isn't the best time to buy a new Humax PVR.

BTW how do you get the data out of the putty.exe window? Every time I try to copy and paste the Telnet Menu just goes beserk and repeats each line as an input to the command line!

Use the mouse to select text and the Control-C works for me.

 

[af123]

BTW how do you get the data out of the putty.exe window? Every time I try to copy and paste the Telnet Menu just goes beserk and repeats each line as an input to the command line!

Just highlighting the text is enough to get it onto the clipboard. No need to press ^C or anything else. Right clicking in PuTTY is a paste operation by default which probably explains the symptom you describe.

 

[prpr]

From the numbers you don't need to change it yet. I think some people have still used disks with a couple of thousand reallocated sectors.

I disagree. I think now IS the time to change it. "Reallocated sectors" are not everything. "Command timeouts" are also a cause for concern.

 

[MontysEvilTwin]

I disagree. I think now IS the time to change it. "Reallocated sectors" are not everything. "Command timeouts" are also a cause for concern.

Fair enough. Do you know of a website that explains all these parameters? The command timeouts number is large, but what is acceptable for a disk that has been running for almost 8000 hours?

 

[prpr]

Do you know of a website that explains all these parameters?

I just browse as the need arises. Manufacturers seem to have differing views on what some of these should mean.

The command timeouts number is large, but what is acceptable for a disk that has been running for almost 8000 hours?

0 in normal operation.
Mine have 32600 and 20500 hours on the clock and both have 0 timeouts, as do both the drives in my PC.
12885098499 indicates something seriously amiss to me.

 

[oldpaul100]

Thanks Martin, af123 and prpr for your input. I've no idea what the proper numbers should be. What does
188 Command_Timeout -O--CK 12885098499 100 099 000 actually mean? It actually seem to freeze in
replaying from the delayed buffer tonite! We had to switch back to Live asap.
It's a new drive at £50 asap I think. Do I have to unlock the HD recordings first using the add-on in the GUI if I want to save the HD records back later?
Thanks for the tip about the Wiki, I've only dipped into it and found it a bit overwhelming at first sight!
Thanks for your help.
Bye

 

[MartinLiddle]

Fair enough. Do you know of a website that explains all these parameters? The command timeouts number is large, but what is acceptable for a disk that has been running for almost 8000 hours?

My 2TB drive has nearly 15000 hours usage and has 0 command timeouts but I have this feeling that the parameters are used in subtly different ways by different manufacturers.

 

[prpr]

What does 188 Command_Timeout -O--CK 12885098499 100 099 000 actually mean?

Time to get your cheque book out .

Do I have to unlock the HD recordings first using the add-on in the GUI if I want to save the HD records back later?

No.

 

[MartinLiddle]

It's a new drive at £50 asap I think. Do I have to unlock the HD recordings first using the add-on in the GUI if I want to save the HD records back later?

No the recordings are encrypted by a component on the motherboard so you can copy the encrypted recordings about and they will still play on your Humax even on a different hard drive; they won't play on a different Humax.

 

[Black Hole]

The StDef recordings are encrypted just the same. The only difference is that StDef are decrypted in the process of copying them to another drive (which requires that specific motherboard to be the middle man) while HiDef are not.

Once you have a new drive installed, use a USB adapter (with separate PSU) to connect the old drive to the Humax USB port, and either play the content from there (Media >> Storage (blue) >> USB) or copy the content to the new drive.

If you are that bothered about unwatched (or "keeper") recordings, you need to routinely decrypt them so that they can be rescued from the drive if the motherboard fails (without the motherboard, encrypted content is useless), and anything really special needs to be backed up (in a decrypted state). Routine decryption requires no user input once configured (using the custom firmware facilities), and for anyone with CF installed is a no-brainer.

Things Every... (click) section 5.

 

[MontysEvilTwin]

I did a bit of searching to satisfy my curiosity and it turns out that Seagate report the command timeout parameter in a different way to other manufacturers. The value reported in post#1 (12885098499) seems massive but it is not as bad as it appears. First you need to convert to hex and this becomes o300030003 which is equivalent to 3 timeouts of 7 seconds duration: explained here.
Of course this is worse than no timeouts. There is another useful thread here. From this thread:

"Also of concern is 188 Command_Timeout which has a value of 1, this is defined as:"

Not worth worrying about. The drive reports almost 2600 hours power-on time, and has seen a single command timeout in that time period. Command timeouts are handled by OSes by retrying the failed command or failing the I/O operation, so if this was a persistent problem you would know about it. Might be related to the 8 pending sectors, or might be unrelated.

I would worry if this starts climbing noticably, but single-digit number of timeouts with no other signs of problems with the system's operation wouldn't concern me.

Of course, this is just someone's opinion. Really it depends on how bothered you are about the possibility of losing the data. If the drive contained my only copy of family photos I'd back it up straight away (not that I'd only have one copy). For a bit of telly, as long as the drive were functioning correctly, I would probably keep on using it for a while.

 

[oldpaul100]

Thanks to all who helped in this thread. I took the easy option and ordered a new 2TB Seagate ST2000VM003 disk from Amazon (£60.00) and an USB3 Powered Housing from eBay. which specifically mention it was for sata disks up to 2TB from DRX for £19.00.
Installed new disk without any trouble, ran through Format in about 3mins. Was glad to see that all the Schedule and Tuning was in Flash so came up immediately. Installed old disk in housing, plugged into rear USB port and lo and behold, old disk all there with Disk 2 having My Video with 157 folders!
Have now exprimented with the Move Command and found some limits. It won't copy old Folders across only Files so I had to create a new Folder to put the old files in. Is this just a quirk of Linux or just the way it's been implimented? Took about 6 mins to copy a 1 hour program across so not exactly fast when you add it to the time to create a new titled folder! Running the old disk seems to have reduced the amount of Stutter we had in recorded programs, haven't tried the 2 hour buffer (Disk 1?) which was going very badly in the end.
Also found that the front USB is quite happy running the Wifi link at the same time so I got offerd three source options, HDD, USB and Network! It's a shame that the Custom Firmware only works over the IP connection, not Wifi! I'm sure there is a good reason.
All I hope for is now to have another 5 years of trouble free use!
Best wishes
Oldpaul

 

[Black Hole]

It will copy folders, and you can mark several files/folders to copy in one batch. Move is only offered within one drive - if you are transferring between drives it is the copy option that is offered. There's no real need to copy everything across, you can play it from where it is. (No, it isn't fast, but it is faster if the content is already decrypted.)

And the WebIF does run over a WiFi link, but you will need to disconnect the Ethernet cable for the WiFi to be active.

 

[oldpaul100]

Seems I've been rejoicing too soon! Had trouble tonight with old disk plug into USB but initially watching that disk until Bakeoff started . Selected back to HDD and disk indicated it was recording Bakeoff and BBC2 but no output showing on Media Menu. Same with Our Girl and DCI Banks. I accidently selected Wifi as media and this seemed to lock it up. When eventually turned it off to cancel this error and back on again the disk seemed to want to be deleting every time went to Media
Got to look at it just now with USB disk and Wifi unplugged. HDD test gave Error 8. Anyone any idea what that is?
I have run Format twice and still get the same result. However it does now seem to record on the disk and indicate straight away on Media.
Running on Custom SW 3.10.
So if I select USB disk it seems to block all acccess to HDD so that scheduled recordings don't happen! Switching back doesn't correct it apparently. So I guess the Record command is a pulse, one time operation which won't get repeated if you miss it! I thought it might set a flag to indicate it should be in the record mode.
Any suggestions?
Oldpaul (late at night!)

 

[oldpaul100]

Following up last nights problems report.
I had to re-install CFW and GUI don't know where that went! Network appeared initially unresponsive but Putty then found it alive and was able to reinstall. It may have been caused by my finger trouble!
Drive Diag is now reporting two parameters out of line.
Raw error Read Rate is high at 093 and Seek error Rate is apparently high at 096.
Attr 197: Current Pending Sector at 376 and Attr 198: Offline Uncorrectable at 376
Do these seem like another failing drive? Seagate give no info about what these represent. However Wiki is firmly of the opinion that Attr 198: indicates either a Disk Defect or problems in the Mechanical Subsystem. Shame. I suppose this isn't an unknown problem.
I've got the full tables stored if you need that full info.
While I thought that the earlier two programs were recording I was watching BBC4. When the programs ended went to Media and found nothing was recording although Guide said it was.
However I don't think this could have caused a drive failure!
Thanks
Oldpaul

 

[MartinLiddle]

Drive Diag is now reporting two parameters out of line.
Raw error Read Rate is high at 093 and Seek error Rate is apparently high at 096.

I wouldn't worry about those.

Attr 197: Current Pending Sector at 376 and Attr 198: Offline Uncorrectable at 376

That is a concern. Try running fix-disk and see if it can correct the problem.