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HDR selective back-up to NAS options

Discussion in 'HD/HDR-FOX T2 Customised Firmware' started by hugoread, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Hello All,

    I'm new to the custom firmware, as of yesterday, so firstly thanks very much to all involved in making such a useful set of tools. Ta very much.

    I've got a HDR and a QNAP NAS that I use to serve all my media around my house (photos, video, music) using the build in Twonky media DLNA server. It works extremely well and I've got 2TB of storage space on there, which is more than enough for me. I'd like to back up various classic series from my HDR to my NAS on a fairly regular basis, but not everything or in a scheduled way. For example, there was recently the Blue Planet series on BBC4 and I want to transfer the lot to my NAS, as it's the kind of stuff that you'll watch again over the years, particularly with the kids.

    Anyway, enough rambling about my viewing preferences, on to the solutions. I've read around as much as I can on the forum, including the very useful flow chart of decrpyt options and gone for the following setup: I've installed auto-unprotect, unencrypt and samba. I then either download a single file (say a classic film I want to keep) or I set the unencrypt option on a folder and then simply use the samba facility to drag and drop it on my PC to the NAS drive. All well and good. However, this still leaves me with a couple of questions / observations:

    1. In the file view of WebIf there are tick boxes to the left of the files so you can multi-select files, but there don't seem to be any operations you can carry out on the multiple selected files. I can't find the opt+ 'download' option for multiple files - is it not there or am I missing something? If it's not there, it would be very useful, then say once a week or month or whatever I could cherry pick files to download by ticking them and then download the lot in one go and go to bed. Is that available?

    2. There don't appear to be any options or configurations screens for any of the packages, is this right? After installing unencrypt I was looking for some kind of configuration screen but it seems that you just go ahead and use it in the file browser with the opt+ unencrypt option. I've done this and downloaded whole folders after the green unencrypt symbol is there, but I'm not sure if there's some configuration options I'm missing somewhere. By the way I'm strictly a UI based guy; I'm too old and my kids are too demanding of my brain to get involved in the command prompt! Also, is there a time-lag before the files are available for download after you've selected a folder for unencrypt? They seem to get the symbol straight away, which is great as long as I'm not missing something.

    3. If I download with the opt+ download option (after there's a DLNA entry) then I just get a numeric file name for the TS file. Is there no way to make this download as the filename in the listing instead?

    4. Following on from 3, when you opt+ download you just get the .TS file, which is great, 'cos I don't need the other meta data .hmt, .nts and .thm files. So when I use samba and just copy a whole unencrypted folder, I presume there's no reason not to delete the copied extra files on my NAS and only keep the .ts files? Is there any difference between this .ts file and the opt+ download numeric .TS file? Presumably they're basically the same thing and it doesn't matter which route you take.

    5. Is there any reason NOT to set unencrypt in the root of 'my video' on the HDR? It's not that I want to download the lot, far from it, it's just that I want an easy life. If I set it once on the root I could then just samba copy the folders and files I want as and when I want to. Related to this, is there an issue with the order of auto-unprotect and unencrypt? Clearly you have to auto-unprotect first, but will they necessarily happen in the required order if they are both just set to run all the time. Can I simply assume it will just work and as soon as I see the green unencrypted logo next to a file it's good to go?

    That's probably quite long enough for a first post. I have searched the forum a lot before posting and I hope I'm not repeating too many questions, but it felt like this was worth a new post. Thanks in advance for any insight and answers.

    Hugo Read.
  2. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member


    Just to clarify, there are currently two automatic decryption mechanisms. The first is built into the web interface and allows you to mark specific folders so that everything in them is decrypted in the background. The second is the unencrypt package which needs configuring from the command line and is designed as a set and forget system that automatically decrypts everything from a specific folder downwards (many people use it to decrypt everything under My Video). The first one probably suits your requirement as you can flag specific folders for decryption and then leave them to be processed in the background.

    The multiple file operation buttons are at the bottom of the media list, Copy, Cut, Delete and Join. There isn't an option for multiple file download. For what you want to do, you would probably be better just waiting until the content is decrypted then copying it straight off via FTP, SCP, rsync, NFS or Samba.

    It depends on the package. If a package provides configuration options via the web interface then they appear as a separate box on the main Settings page. As I said above, unencrypt doesn't provide any options, it's a command-line configurable utility that you probably don't need here.

    There should be a time lag before the files a decrypted - by the green unencrypt symbol do you mean the green oval containing the word Dec?

    Not with on-the-fly decryption as the file is being served directly by the Humax DLNA server. I did originally have a shim proxy in place to translate the filename but it put the Humax CPU at 100% while the file was being served so I removed it.

    If the file is decrypted, then there's no difference between the two .ts files.
    The other files, usually called the sidecar files, aren't strictly required but are worth keeping. The very small .hmt file contains information about the recording such as the name that is displayed in the media list and the original EPG information. The .nts file is an index file that the Humax uses with the .ts file to support trick play (skip forwards/back, FF/REW). Without this file the .ts will still play but with limited skip options. The .thm is the thumbnail image displayed in the Humax media list.

    There is no ordering issue with auto-unprotect and unencrypt (btw, for SD content, auto-unprotect isn't even needed). Due to the clever way that xyz321 has designed it, auto-unprotect kicks in the instant the recording completes, before the unencrypt processes come anywhere near it.

    If you want to unencrypt the whole of My Video, then you need to use the unencrypt package and configure it from the command line. I wouldn't be unduly daunted as it's a fairly simple process that only needs doing once. Many people do this, the only potential downside is that you're unnecessarily processing everything which causes additional disk activity and introduces more opportunities for something to go wrong.
  3. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Thanks for the reply af123, all very useful. I didn't realise that you didn't need the unencrypt package to decrypt the folders. I think I'll remove the package and just do it through the interface on a selective folder basis. However, it would be really handy to be able to cherry pick various files in the root folder and unencrypt those - ie have the opt+ button available for a bunch of selected files rather than on a file by file basis. Maybe one for the future!

    When you said there are two unencrypt options, surely there is a third too, which is simply the opt+ download, which unless I'm mistaken will download the chosen file and unencrypt it on the fly whilst downloading. Not meaning to nit-pick, I just want to make sure I understand the various options properly. Or does the opt+ download option NOT unencrypt files when it downloads? The flow chart suggests to me that it does.

    The info you gave me on the sidecar files (thanks for the jargon!) is very useful - thanks. It does raise another couple of questions though. When you say it's useful to keep them, does that mean that they can still perform a useful function when on my network and not on the Humax? I won't ever re-upload them to the box, so they are only useful to me if they are of use when on the network if you see what I mean. What would be REALLY good would be if there were some way of making the trick play work when streaming a file on either of the Humax boxes (I've got an HDR and an HD) from the network. However, as the files are being served off my NAS by Twonky Media, a DLNA server, I can't imagine that the Humax boxes would be able to use the sidecar files as they will just see the video files being served to them by Twonky and will have no notion of Windows folders. Basically trick (or rather lack-of-trick) play is a real pain with DLNA, but at the moment that's just something I live with. Same with the awful Humax implementation of the BBC iPlayer, which I use all the time, mainly for the kids, but the searching for files is a mega-drag and 'trick' play is nearly non-existent except for a jump of about five minutes with the 'first' and 'last' ff and rewind buttons.

    Anyone's insight on trick play off the network with DLNA and for the iPlayer would be much appreciated.

    Thanks again,
  4. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Now now, play fair. He said two automatic decrypt options, ie methods which will decrypt recordings without further user intervention. WebIF Opt+ download and SUI Opt+ USB copy are manual methods.

    You won't be able to get full transport control by DLNA playback, but if you mounted your NAS as a virtual USB drive (using network-shares-automount) the files would be played as if they were local (which also increases the range of compatible file types). There is an AV2HDR utility which can create the sidecar files for some video types.

    As far as iPlayer goes, you are stuck with the 5 minute skip. However, if you download the stream ahead of viewing it you can save it off and then view it like any other MP4, with the transport controls.
  5. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Thanks for the reply Black Hole, although I'm not overly thrilled at someone saying "now, now" to me like a teacher! Hopefully I was being clear that I was absolutely not meaning to nit-pick, I just wanted to check that the opt+ download does decrypt on the fly, which I wasn't sure of. I take it that it does.

    Particularly thanks though for pointing me to network-shares-automount package, which looks to be something I could really use. I've tried it but so far no joy although I might be configuring it incorrectly. I tried both nfs and smb as I don't know which one my QNAP 219P NAS needs, but I couldn't get it to work with either. The drive showed up in the USB storage (alongside the physical USB I've got connected), but when I tried to select it the cursor just jumped up to the physical USB entry in the list, refusing to do anything with the new entry. I think I must need the smb connection, as the nsf one didn't have options for username and password in the template, which I definitely need to get on my NAS. However, I left the domain/workgroup blank, as the NAS box doesn't use one. Perhaps I need nfs but have to add the username and password entries to the template? I'm just not sure to be honest. I've got the IP address of course, but I don't seem to be able to get it to work. I'll try again later today but I'm not sure what other options to try.

    This also brings to my head the question of how to do the same kind of thing on my Humax HD (I've got an HDR and an HD). At the moment I stream files off my HDR on my HD using the Humax build in DLNA server, but as we've already discussed, the trick play is fairly awful. If there was a similar way to get a virtual USB mount of the HDR on the HD so I could have proper programme listings, that would be great. I don't have a USB connected to the HD but I could always plug a pen in the back if necessary for set-up.

    Thoughts much appreciated,
  6. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    What I do for viewing HDR content on the HD-FOX is run samba on the HDR and automount on the HD, but you will need to decrypt all the content on the HDR (run auto-unprotect and unencrypt). I do find that viewing HiDef content that way suffers break-ups whereas using DLNA doesn't, my theory is that my network is not quite fast enough but the DLNA client is designed to cope with it by buffering (a player for media stored locally would not need to buffer).

    It is worth reading the forum topic for network-shares-automount, as several config examples are given.
  7. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Thanks for that. I'll read everything I can on network-shares-automount and only come back if I'm still stick.

    Interesting that you get break up when 'playing' over the network rather than DLNA streaming. Is your network completely connected by cat5 on a gigabit switch or are you using wifi somewhere along the line or do you only have a 10/100 switch? I've got a gigabit switch and router and both Humax devices are connected directly by cat5, so I reckon I should be able to play HD over my network without breakup. I'll let you know how I get on. I still haven't put the custom firmware on the HD yet (it's just on the HDR), so I've got a way to go.

  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    The "weak" link in my network chain is 200Mbps HomePlug. You might be OK, but network traffic is in bursts by nature and there is a lot of negotiation going on between processes behind the scenes, so it can be anticipated that a playback process not designed to take latency into account might fall foul of it from time to time.

    In general I record everything in StDef and only bother with HiDef for content that warrants it (saves disk space, makes streaming easier, less processor and disk load decrypting it, easier to make a DVD from...).
  9. prpr

    prpr Well-Known Member

    He is known for his patronising arrogant attitude. It's not just you.
    I've had to kill-file him.
  10. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Try reading the original post and getting around the actual message, instead of a skewed semi-quotation.
  11. Ezra Pound

    Ezra Pound Well-Known Member

    The Humax products don't have Gigabit LAN ports so a Gigabit network is of no benefit to them
  12. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Shame. Fair enough. Whether or not I'm less likely to get choppy HD playback by being wired as opposed to wireless anyway (even though the Humaxes aren't gigabit), I guess I'll find out when I try to stream HD content. Thanks for the information.
  13. Ezra Pound

    Ezra Pound Well-Known Member

    Although the Humax's don't benfit from Gigabit transport they can definitely benefit from a wired LAN as opposed to Wi-Fi, because Wi-Fi is much more likely to 'fall back' to a lower bit rate due to a poor signal. Your 54Mb Wi-Fi could be running at only 1Mb under extreme circumstances
  14. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Yes, well I've certainly never had any lag ever on my fully wired home network. I only use wifi to stream to my Nexus 7 tablet, both tellies are plugged in. When we moved in to our house six years ago I fully wired the house with cat5 to every room from a central comms cupboard with a gigabit switch, which was one of the best things I ever did - although my wife thought me barmy at the time of course!

    Anyway, if I do manage to get the HD humax on custom firmware (I don't have a spare USB and doing in on a USB pen seems like a real phaff) then I'll see how the HiDef streaming from the HDR to the HD is compared to streaming via DLNA. I currently stream to both the HDR and the HD from either my NAS or from the HDR using DLNA and I've never once have any lag.

    I would be really keen to get the HD to display files from the HDR just as it shows them when viewed directly on the HDR (via DLNA you just get a filename with no channel info, thumbnail etc) and get all the associated transport controls, but I'm not too keen to get into command line stuff to get the custom firmware on a USB pen on the HD.

  15. richsimpson

    richsimpson New Member

    Sounds like you. Are doing very similar to me Hugo. I just started with the same unit and trying to move some files to a Iomega 2tb NAS to keep recordings and stream to other devices too.

    I tried the various options of decrypting and had all sorts installed including the unencrypt and wondered why it wasn't doing anything. Also had config to copy files to a virtual USB to decrypt and then FTP over to the NAS.

    Finally. Reading your query and responses I figured out I could remove some of the tweaks and use web utility to tell the Humax which file or folder to decrypt and now have those files sitting with the green DEC symbol when viewing on the web interface. Now I have just auto unencrypt installed to remove the flag and then I can decrypt in the web utility using opt+

    For me I can now view those decrypted files over my gigabit network although understand some parts are only 10/100

    I try to view through Samsung smart tv, boxee box and iPad using Ace player. All fall over trying to stream the Hd content playing of the Iomega twonky server, or the humax own media server. I get a mix of nothing, good smooth picture, choppy audio, good audio choppy picture. The boxee box which usually plays anything streams from both servers with perfect visuals, but the audio is intermittent static.

    Playing from the Iomega to a PC gives great audio and visual.

    What are you finding, same or better/worse results?
  16. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Hello there Rich. Well as I said above, I've never had any choppiness or any problems streaming HiDef content at all. I've got a QNAP NAS that has a built in Twonky DLNA server and I use that to serve files from my NAS to either telly or other devices. All streams very well.

    The one thing I haven't tried yet, and want to give a go, is what we've been discussing on this thread, which is copying all the sidecar files with the .ts file onto my network drive so that I can view the files from the Humax with all the file information and transport controls preserved. I haven't got network-shares-automount to work for me yet, but I'll report back when I do.
  17. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Have you taken account of the need for a real USB drive/stick to be plugged in so as to fool the Humax into seeing the virtual drive created by the mount? There is an alternative in the form of virtual-disk2, but it seems to be a little buggy at the moment.
  18. hugoread

    hugoread Member

    Thanks Black Hole. Yes, I do have an actual USB drive plugged into my HDR (it's my HD that I don't have one plugged into). The virtual USB does show up alongside my actual USB in the listings on the HDR, but when I go to select it the selection just jumps back to the actual USB - ie it won't let me navigate inside the virtual USB drive.

    I guess I haven't got network-shares-automount set up correctly. I'll carry on through that 20 odd page posting on the package and try again, but at the moment I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
  19. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    That sounds very strange. I think it might be something else.
  20. richsimpson

    richsimpson New Member

    Hugo. I am not having the same success with streaming the decrypted HD files off my Nas.

    What version is the twonky server. Mine is a more budget NaS I think but it's streaming not hd camcorder files fine with higher bit rates.

    My twonky says its v6.0.34
    I seem to be a stage behind you still.

    Other than decrypt and load to the nas. Is there anything else you do. Eg shrink them?

    If I can to your stage will also look at the sided olds to see if I can assist on that one.
    I have removed the virtualdisk option now as I found it ok to decrypt as I go and then FTP the file out to the nas