Humax Beta Firmware

[framedtoo]

Im keeping stum! ....but all good things come to those who wait

i'd just like the truth (oct,nov,dec,between xmas & newyear,jan,feb,mar,don't know when).

if there are major probs, say so, give us the update without the portal, and keep us informed about the portal without b******t.

we wont go ditching our box's because the portal's not here, but people may when promises are broken.

 

[Sandholme]

i'd just like the truth (oct,nov,dec,between xmas & newyear,jan,feb,mar,don't know when).

if there are major probs, say so, give us the update without the portal, and keep us informed about the portal without b******t.

we wont go ditching our box's because the portal's not here, but people may when promises are broken.

Each official release will have to go through a large amount of testing, that costs money so you don't want too many releases.

Also getting release dates right is more by luck than planning for anything non-trivial. Usually it comes down to release on time with bugs / missing functionality or wait until at least the major blockers are done. Just look at how many software products meet their initial target dates which are normally optimistically set by the project managers under duress from their bosses without regard to what the software guys are saying or previous experience.

 

[framedtoo]

Each official release will have to go through a large amount of testing, that costs money so you don't want too many releases.

Also getting release dates right is more by luck than planning for anything non-trivial. Usually it comes down to release on time with bugs / missing functionality or wait until at least the major blockers are done. Just look at how many software products meet their initial target dates which are normally optimistically set by the project managers under duress from their bosses without regard to what the software guys are saying or previous experience.

i understand the beta testers on the forums have been gagged on all aspects of the update now, by humax
humax also dont want to lose new customers (who are new to humax, the rest of us know with frustration what humax is like).

i work where i deal with customers daily, if i miss deadlines that i have promised, complaints go in, and i'm dragged over the coals.
as a result i only promise what i can deliver.

the point being dont upset your customers with missed promises, and keep them buying your products

 

[bixieupnorth]

how many have been given the test firmware, there cant be that many owners actually on ds, 50 at most i'd assume, wouldnt have thought it would have hurt humax to send it to everyone who expressed an interest??

i'm on 3rd one, 9200, 9300 and now hdr fox t2, plus at least 4 other people have boxes cos of my positive reports, but no i still dont get the email

 

[framedtoo]

how many have been given the test firmware, there cant be that many owners actually on ds, 50 at most i'd assume, wouldnt have thought it would have hurt humax to send it to everyone who expressed an interest??

i'm on 3rd one, 9200, 9300 and now hdr fox t2, plus at least 4 other people have boxes cos of my positive reports, but no i still dont get the email

i think there was a post on ds somewhere that it was a delaying action on the part of humax

 

[Sandholme]

i work where i deal with customers daily, if i miss deadlines that i have promised, complaints go in, and i'm dragged over the coals.
as a result i only promise what i can deliver.

How I wish that was true in the software world, complex software takes a long time, is often counted as new work so there is little to base estimates on and then you find that requirements change underneath you, unexpected interractions happen, the systems you are talking to don't react they way they told you they would, experienced people leave or are pulled of to fix bugs on other systems.

I used to write database software, that was relatively easy to estimate as it was rarely more than a few man months effort in total with few complex interractions. Getting the portal to work whilst fixing other issues and introducing other new features will be much more time consuming and risky as you are interfacing with lots of external companies over whom you have little control. Think how many game developers now say "It will be done when it's done"

 

[framedtoo]

im not having a go at beta testers, or anyone who are writing the programmes to make the systems work.

as i said i deal with customers daily, deadlines ect. however companies (software, it feels more than most). are not that concerned about their customer base. i deal with suppliers all the time which causes problems (just on time).

i then have to come up with an excuse why i haven't delivered.

i tell the truth (it gets complicated if you dont)

customers 90% happy

if you don't and you make up stuff, well forget about your company because eventualy there wont be one

HUMAX LISTEN

 

[ChrisDaniels]

Guys, coding is not an exact science - its not the same as delivering goods or services.
You cant give an exact estimate of how long its going to take to code up something and fix tricky bugs as you dont know what you have to deal with until you get to that point.

While i agree Humax needs to communicate to its customers a bit better than they currently do (to us geeks especially), i also agree that when dealing with software - when its done, its done.

I hate having to give deadlines in my job for coding jobs, so i just make it up - a couple of weeks, a few hours - i dont know until i get to a stage where i think, "yep its pretty much done". and thats if i dont then come across a bug.

I think Humax should think about smaller firmware releases in future, and release those on their beta site. Then at least we would have less to wait for - its not just the Portal we are waiting for, its bug fixes too.

 

[MrPloppy]

I agree with you Chris, however as a coder, you will know that there are always deadlines to make. I hate giving estimates for my work, but I certainly wouldn't make it up. Instead, I try and turn it around: when do they want it by? I then make an guess as to whether I could do it in that time, working overtime if I have to. I'm sure you do something like that too.

What's happened so far is that humax produced a great new kit, but the advertisers wanted to show what it would be capable of. It was probably the advertisers who came up with the idea of a sticker on the box saying portal coming in October. This was what? A year ago? And you can't blame the advertisers for doing that, as most of us on here would have bought the machine on its promised capabilities.

For me, this is a deadline, and I personally would be working around the clock to get it done. Any changes in requirements, like what happened when the BBC wanted to do further testing is almost unavoidable, so one could expect some delays in the software due to this.

However, we're now coming up to four months late, and I dont believe its down to external requirements changes. If it were, I'd be advertising that fact continuously: "its the BBC's fault its late, not ours!"

I think that *something* should have been delivered by now. If not all of the portal, then some of it. Instead we're drip fed excuses and there is a beta testing phase going on now so late in the day that I can only assume the January deadline will be missed too. I hope I have to eat my words!

MrP.

 

[Humaximum]

I agree with you Chris, however as a coder, you will know that there are always deadlines to make. I hate giving estimates for my work, but I certainly wouldn't make it up. Instead, I try and turn it around: when do they want it by? I then make an guess as to whether I could do it in that time, working overtime if I have to. I'm sure you do something like that too.

What's happened so far is that humax produced a great new kit, but the advertisers wanted to show what it would be capable of. It was probably the advertisers who came up with the idea of a sticker on the box saying portal coming in October. This was what? A year ago? And you can't blame the advertisers for doing that, as most of us on here would have bought the machine on its promised capabilities.

For me, this is a deadline, and I personally would be working around the clock to get it done. Any changes in requirements, like what happened when the BBC wanted to do further testing is almost unavoidable, so one could expect some delays in the software due to this.

However, we're now coming up to four months late, and I dont believe its down to external requirements changes. If it were, I'd be advertising that fact continuously: "its the BBC's fault its late, not ours!"

I think that *something* should have been delivered by now. If not all of the portal, then some of it. Instead we're drip fed excuses and there is a beta testing phase going on now so late in the day that I can only assume the January deadline will be missed too. I hope I have to eat my words!

MrP.

Nor were we who have tried to join the beta testing been given any explanation why and on what criteria we weren't chosen. I wouldn't have minded so much if I had received an email stating the reason why I wasn't deemed suitable on this occasion. I feel its just politeness to do so.

 

[keithatrochdale]

This is how the BETA software for the 9200 was handled, badly.

You would think Humax would learn, but it seems not.

There are still bugs on the 9200 that need fixing, in fact we were told they would be fixed, but often fixes brought more problems.When testing one Beta we reported bugs, but Humax went on and released the software anyway.

I still wouldn't be without my 9200 though.

 

[Brian]

It was probably the advertisers who came up with the idea of a sticker on the box saying portal coming in October.

My box doesn't have any stickers about the portal, the details are printed on the box.

However, we're now coming up to four months late

Coming in October means up to 31st, therefore if it has not arrived by January 31st, it will be THREE months late, and not four as you say.

I think that *something* should have been delivered by now. If not all of the portal, then some of it. Instead we're drip fed excuses and there is a beta testing phase going on now so late in the day that I can only assume the January deadline will be missed too. I hope I have to eat my words!

MrP.

I would like to have received it before christmas but that didn't happen, and personally don't see any point in part of it being released without the rest.

 

[MrPloppy]

Hello brian. I don't want to get pinickety about the detail, but the first point was about the software update; perhaps I didn't make it clear that while the beta may be released in January, which, to be fair, only a minority would download and install, do you think that the OTA update would occur in the next two weeks? Regardless of how many months have passed, the point was about there being a very long time between the promise and the (yet to get) deliverable. I don't think that acceptable, and that is the point I was making.

You're right about the sticker, but it DOES look like a sticker, right? Again, not to be pinickety, but the point was about the advertisers wanting that on the box so it would sell more. That was the point.

Finally, while I agree in principle with your last point (i too would like all of it and now), my experience in software development tells me that software can be delivered in many "patches". Microsoft send out a patch update every month to their o/'s. Again, the point was concerning the fact that updates don't have to be limited to just one massive delivery. The portal, for example, was first mooted to coming out at Xmas WITHOUT the skyplayer. Software CAN be delivered in small doses.

MrP.

 

[Sandholme]

Finally, while I agree in principle with your last point (i too would like all of it and now), my experience in software development tells me that software can be delivered in many "patches". Microsoft send out a patch update every month to their o/'s. Again, the point was concerning the fact that updates don't have to be limited to just one massive delivery. The portal, for example, was first mooted to coming out at Xmas WITHOUT the skyplayer. Software CAN be delivered in small doses.
MrP.

Yes of course it can be dlivered in small patches, it's just more expensive to do so so there has to be a financial payback, what that point is is normally argued by the financial controllers not the software guys. Companies like Microsoft can afford to, but then they still get slammed in the press for leaving known security holes in for weeks as they only patch once per month, and have been doing that every month since XP was introduced some 8 years ago Also fixing bugs introduces more, it used to be said that for every 3 bugs you fixed one more was created; I've had at least 2 occasions at work where MS bug fixes have stopped other software working completely.

 

[Brian]

Hello brian. I don't want to get pinickety about the detail, but the first point was about the software update; perhaps I didn't make it clear that while the beta may be released in January, which, to be fair, only a minority would download and install, do you think that the OTA update would occur in the next two weeks? Regardless of how many months have passed, the point was about there being a very long time between the promise and the (yet to get) deliverable. I don't think that acceptable, and that is the point I was making.

I would have thought that most Humax owners reading about the update on the various forums would download and install it when it becomes available rather than wait for the OTA. I agree that it is unlikely that the OTA update will happen before the end of January.

You're right about the sticker, but it DOES look like a sticker, right? Again, not to be pinickety, but the point was about the advertisers wanting that on the box so it would sell more. That was the point.

No, it Doesn't look like a sticker, it's just printed on the box in three places along with various other features, and made no difference to me whether it was there or not when I purchased my box.

Finally, while I agree in principle with your last point (i too would like all of it and now), my experience in software development tells me that software can be delivered in many "patches". Microsoft send out a patch update every month to their o/'s. Again, the point was concerning the fact that updates don't have to be limited to just one massive delivery. The portal, for example, was first mooted to coming out at Xmas WITHOUT the skyplayer. Software CAN be delivered in small doses.

MrP.

Yes, I know that software can be released in various stages but you and I know what happens when there is an OTA update for a pvr. The various forums are full of confused people wondering what has happened to their boxes, and then you get others saying that they didn't get the update. So for the average non forum pvr user, I think that less frequent full updates would be most suitable.

I am happy to update my own boxes on a regular basis, and can't remember the last time that I received an OTA update, as I tend to update my boxes via Serial or USB cables with the older boxes, and USB Flash Drives with my Freeview HD boxes.

 

[MrPloppy]

Just on the sticker thing: I wad going by memory, I admit. The box is up in my loft and I wasn't going to get the ladders out to check!

The point I was making about the point of the sticker (which was pointless!) wasn't so much the sticker, but the advert about the stuff the t2 would eventually do. I bought it against the 3view based on that advert. There have been enough moans on ds about this advert and trading standards and so on, but the upshot is that the only card we could play is to send our box back! Not a thing I want to do. So we're stuck at the.moment moaning about the situation, while we wait. I'm sure, just like giving birth, once delivered, all memories of this pain we're going through will be forgotten!

I think in all this, we can agree that humax could have done this better!

MrP.

 

[Brian]

I bet you are glad in hindsight that you chose the Humax instead of the 3View box.

 

[MrPloppy]

Actually, I really don't know! Since getting the hummy, I've not kept up-to-date with the latest elsewhere... did something happen, or rather not happen?

 

[Brian]

I think that they have been having quite a few problems with the 3View.

 

[MrPloppy]

Oh dear! That's a shame. It looked so great too! The hummy and the 3view were equally as good in terms of capability, but it was only the bad problems other people were saying about it that made.me choose humax... glad I did now! I think an hours research on the 3view forums are in order....