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Insufficient disk space ... for what?
- Thread starter cloud9
- Start date
Yes, it did.
Interesting. The new version is reading the information from the filesystem superblock. Maybe the free space information is not updated in real time but on sync or unmount. I'll do some digging!
Edit: Definitely isn't updating in real time.
I'll fix this.
Edit: Definitely isn't updating in real time.
Code:
umax# tune2fs -l /dev/sda2 | grep 'Free'
Free blocks: 208563763
Free inodes: 1868351
humax# dd if=/dev/zero of=/mod/testfile bs=10M count=100
100+0 records in
100+0 records out
1048576000 bytes (1000.0MB) copied, 25.607821 seconds, 39.0MB/s
humax# tune2fs -l /dev/sda2 | grep 'Free'
Free blocks: 208563763
Free inodes: 1868351
humax# sync
humax# tune2fs -l /dev/sda2 | grep 'Free'
Free blocks: 208563763
Free inodes: 1868351I'll fix this.
DelftBlue
Member
Apologies for being a squeaky wheel ... but, while the disk space data is now updating in 'real' time (for which, much thanks) I observe that the webif is now reporting a higher number of GiB free space compared to the TV screen free disk space info. I can't figure out why this is.
Crucially the significant mis-match is for the HDR here with very little free space so I'm glad I realised ... but if this is the case for others, who didn't realise, it could be problematic:
i.e. for me, webif up to 1.01.13-2 always used to show 0% free disk space when there was actually quite a few GB left - which was a mis-match, and sometimes confusing - but at least this did have the unintended positive effect of worrying the webif user ahead of space running out ... allowing time to sort out a potential problem.
However, the mis-match of disk space info now seems to fall the other way, and may tell people they have quite a few more GB than the Humax/TV screen info. Therefore people who mostly interact via webif may run out of space before they realise, which would cause more grief than the previous mis-match situation (particularly if 'They-WMB-Kept-Happy' get a failed recording of EmerEnders Street and wotnot
)Cloud9 - is this still the case with webif 1.01.13-5?
Again, maybe other people can report their webif 1.01.13-5 disk space data observations.
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Additional test results added for feedback:
Humax HDR 'Box A'
Before - with webif 1.0.13-2 (on Weds 28th May 2014)
- via TV screen: 553 GB free space
- via web-if page: 509.7 G free space, 59% (Total: 906.1 G, Used: 350.3 G, 41%)
After - with webif 1.0.13-3 (on Weds 28th May 2014)
- via TV screen: 553 GB free space
- via web-if page: 554.16 GiB free space, 61% (Total: 920.5 GiB, Used: 366.34 GiB, 39%)
After After - with webif 1.0.13-5 (on Sun 1st June May 2014)
- via TV screen: 559 GB free space
- via web-if page: 561.9 GiB free space, 63% (Total: 906.06 GiB, Used: 344.16 GiB, 37%)
Humax HDR 'Box B'
Before - with webif 1.0.13-2 (Weds 28th May 2014)
- via TV screen: 13 GB free space
- via web-if page: 0 free space, 0% (Total: 906.1 G, Used: 890.0 G, 100%)
After - with webif 1.0.13-3 (Weds 28th May 2014)
- via TV screen: 13 GB free space
- via web-if page: 12.19 GiB free space, 2% (Total: 920.5 GiB, Used: 898.32 GiB, 98%)
After After - with webif 1.0.13-5 (Sun 1st June May 2014)
- via TV screen: 20 GB free space
- via web-if page: 27.1 GiB free space, 3% (Total: 906.06 GiB, Used: 878.96 GiB, 97%)
(undelete is installed in both cases, though I'm not sure how this could impact, but anyway [Deleted Items] was totally emptied, so contains 0 GiB)
I've always seen it as about 5G difference (and had assumed it was the space it would use for live pause, but apparently it has a separate partition for that). Unfortunately our son has just broken our TV 
, so I can longer see the right-hand-side to check the difference any more (nor can my wife watch TV to free up space!). I do see that the "Total" figure you have for 1.0.13-3 is higher,which I assume was a glitch in that version, but I also see that the difference between Total-Used vs TV is no consistent for the other 2 dates. So I guess the questions are -
, so I can longer see the right-hand-side to check the difference any more (nor can my wife watch TV to free up space!). I do see that the "Total" figure you have for 1.0.13-3 is higher,which I assume was a glitch in that version, but I also see that the difference between Total-Used vs TV is no consistent for the other 2 dates. So I guess the questions are -- Does it stop at 0 as reported by TV screen, or is the Humax just being cautious about some possible use? I have hit 0 before and had incomplete recordings, but I didn't work out how accurate the figure on the TV would have been. I doubt it was out by the 5G difference I normally see.
- Is there any way to work out exactly how much the Humax is '"reserving"?
I haven't yet worked out the way in which the on-TV disk display is calculated. It certainly doesn't update immediately if I create or remove a large file on the disk via FTP or telnet.
The key thing for the automatic processing is that there must be sufficient disk space available for whatever it's doing so it doesn't really matter what the on-TV display says in that case, but it would be nice to get them in-sync!
The key thing for the automatic processing is that there must be sufficient disk space available for whatever it's doing so it doesn't really matter what the on-TV display says in that case, but it would be nice to get them in-sync!
DelftBlue
Member
The separate partition for the buffer (containing up to 2 hours of live television) is much bigger than 5GiB ... a figure of 114GiB springs to mind though I can't remember where I saw that, so may be wrong ... but anyway, it needs to be big enough to hold 2 hours of HD broadcast.
Yes.
Once the free disk space is down to less than 2GB, then the on-TV display uses MB and counts down 1 by 1 or 10 by 10, until it hits 0 and recording stops. A message briefly flashes on screen saying something like 'No more recording is possible because there is no free disk space'.
If it's challenging the ingenuity of af123, then it's certainly a very mysterious and puzzling enigma ...
Automatic processing is working beautifully now, in line with the entirely sensible and logical rule of '1GB plus 3 times the size of the file in question'. I am very happy and most grateful for that.
I was just expressing concern that the knock-on effect of changes that occurred for the benefit of myself and cloud9's pursuit of 'auto-processing even with low disk space', might disturb some other webif users who rely on the webif disk data information.
In other words, the change was good for me, but I hope I won't be inadvertently responsible for an enraged SWMBO or HWMBO with a failed recording because webif showed free disk space that wasn't really there ...
Ah well, all I can do is send some positive vibes into the ether to encourage the HDR to give up its secret method of calculation and enable us to one day achieve the nirvana of in-sync-ed-ness ...
prpr
Well-Known Member
The time-shift buffer is on the same partition as all your other media files...
The EPG stuff is on partition 1 (~1GB)
Buffer, media, and custom firmware packages are on partition 2.
Portal related stuff is on partition 3 (~10GB)
DelftBlue
Member
Thank you prpr for your explanation.
My use of the term 'partition' was incorrect.
The buffer (that holds up to 2 hours of live television) is 'reserved space' - and on a 1TB disk, the space reserved is 114GB.
Last night, in the spirit of curiosity, I made the disk of HDR-B fill up to capacity, until the zero space warning appeared on screen. (sweeper worked successfully with 3MB space left but ceased working at 0MB)
Via 'Menu' > 'Settings' > 'System' >'Data Storage' > 'Storage - Internal HDD' - the info showed:
Available Size: 0.0 GB
Used Size: 906.0 GB
Reserved Size: 114 GB
Total Size: 1000.0 GB
The on-TV Media screen showed HDD - Free Storage: 0 MB available
After wating awhile, and several page refreshes - webif showed:
Free: 2.33 GiB (1%)
Used: 903.72 GiB (99%)
Total space: 906.06 GiB
It's curious how the difference between the on-TV number and the webif number varies day to day - I would have thought the disparity would be constant, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Mysterious ...
At least the seem to be in agreement about that 906GB figure. I think the Reserved figure is completely misleading though and it doesn't correspond to the TSR buffer.
Thinking out loud for a bit...
A 1TB drive is 1000^4 bytes (disk manufacturers use 1000-based prefixes).
A Tebibyte is 1024^4 bytes. The web interface displays sizes using these units (hence the extra i in TiB)
Converting the 1 TB disk size into GiB - 1000^4 / 1024^3 = 931GiB
As prpr has said, the disk has three partitions. The partition used for recordings on your unit is 906GiB in size (972GB) - I believe the web interface here!
It appears that the Humax storage page is mixing the two standards in some way.
It's showing Used Size = 906 which matches the Total Size shown by the Web Interface (and is indeed the size of the recording partition in GiB) but is showing the Total size as 1000 which must be in GB. This makes no sense but I would guess that they do this so that the consumer doesn't feel short changed. Having bought a 1TB unit they want to see 1000GB somewhere!
So - the Reserved value shown most likely includes 1000 - <real partition size> to try and account for the difference. In your case that's 94 (I won't show units as the two values being subtracted have different dimensions!). That leaves 20 GB/GiB remaining; the numbers don't even add up.
From the web interface, we know that there is still 2.33GiB space remaining on the recordings partition.
I think the missing factor might be how much space is really reserved for the TSR buffer. Given that the space used on disk does vary, that could account for the numbers being off by different amounts for different people.
So - if you use the Web Interface Browse page and go up directories until you can see the top level of the filesystem and then go to /mnt/hd2, how big is the Tsr folder (mine's around 5.3GiB)?
I think we're getting closer to understanding this!
Thinking out loud for a bit...
A 1TB drive is 1000^4 bytes (disk manufacturers use 1000-based prefixes).
A Tebibyte is 1024^4 bytes. The web interface displays sizes using these units (hence the extra i in TiB)
Converting the 1 TB disk size into GiB - 1000^4 / 1024^3 = 931GiB
As prpr has said, the disk has three partitions. The partition used for recordings on your unit is 906GiB in size (972GB) - I believe the web interface here!
It appears that the Humax storage page is mixing the two standards in some way.
It's showing Used Size = 906 which matches the Total Size shown by the Web Interface (and is indeed the size of the recording partition in GiB) but is showing the Total size as 1000 which must be in GB. This makes no sense but I would guess that they do this so that the consumer doesn't feel short changed. Having bought a 1TB unit they want to see 1000GB somewhere!
So - the Reserved value shown most likely includes 1000 - <real partition size> to try and account for the difference. In your case that's 94 (I won't show units as the two values being subtracted have different dimensions!). That leaves 20 GB/GiB remaining; the numbers don't even add up.
From the web interface, we know that there is still 2.33GiB space remaining on the recordings partition.
I think the missing factor might be how much space is really reserved for the TSR buffer. Given that the space used on disk does vary, that could account for the numbers being off by different amounts for different people.
So - if you use the Web Interface Browse page and go up directories until you can see the top level of the filesystem and then go to /mnt/hd2, how big is the Tsr folder (mine's around 5.3GiB)?
I think we're getting closer to understanding this!
DelftBlue
Member
I just phoned home to get this data, and was told 8 times that via webif Browse, the top level possible is '/media' - can't go higher, nothing to click ....
Anyway, after persisting, it turned out that clicking on the '/' gets up one more level ... one learns something every day
in /mnt/hd2, the Tsr folder has 17.7GiB and contains a folder '0.ts' (17.63GiB)
Yes, it's odd! I think its a made-up number to keep the consumer happy.
If something sold as 1TB or 1000 'units', actually only contains 931 'units' of usable space, but then only 906 'units' of this is actually available for recording, it's hard to explain to the average punter.
So there's a nice table shown on-screen which shows a 'reserved space' of 114 units to
Until now, I hadn't questioned it ... but of course when you think about it, 114 is a ridiculous number for 2 hours of TV! 17 makes more sense.
Thing is, it adds up to 1020! I suspect they were shooting for 1000 but got the maths wrong...
There you go then. There's 2.33 GiB free on the filesystem but the Humax software must be reserving 20GiB in total for the Tsr.
17.7 + 2.33 neatly adds up 20GiB assuming a bit of rounding.
The fact that different people's Tsr folder will have different sizes explains the disparity we've seen between devices.
I would like, if possible, to see the figure that the TV shows since that is the accurate reflection of how much recording space left I have. And that is the figure I am most interested in (being close to it quite often).
[edit] Oh and web-if reports TS folder is (15.1GiB) on 500MB
[edit] Oh and web-if reports TS folder is (15.1GiB) on 500MB
DelftBlue
Member
As did I ...
... mental arithmetic was never my strong point.Or were they aiming for 1024?!
If it really was a mathematical 'typo' by whoever created that screen view, then it's embarrassing to have had it sent out on thousands of devices. Has it never been noticed before?
What does the 'Data Storage' page say on the 500GB HDRs?