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Restart. Are you sure? Are you REALLY sure? Are you really really REALLY sure?

Discussion in 'HD/HDR-FOX T2 Customised Firmware' started by LDW, Dec 16, 2012.

  1. LDW

    LDW Member

    When you ask for a restart, three button presses are now needed:

    - A restart is required. RESTART NOW / DISMISS

    - Are you sure you wish to perform a restart now? OK/ CANCEL

    - Really sure? There is a small chance... OK / CANCEL

    It seems perverse to tell you that something is needed, then ask if you want it, then tell you that if you do the thing that is needed and which you have said you want, that something nasty may happen. :)

    I would suggest that this be reduced to one button press as follows:

    A restart is required.
    There is a small chance that the Humax may not restart without physical intervention (ie pressing the standby button or using the remote control.

    RESTART NOW / RESTART LATER is substituted to disambiguate RESTART NOW / DISMISS - see http://hummy.tv/forum/threads/dismiss-quest-ce-que-cest.2663

    What do others think?

    Attached Files:

  2. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    It is not unusual to select something and then have to confirm it, but I agree three is one too many. In my view it should not be based on just one click, it is easy to click the wrong one by mistake and then the box is unavailable for half a minute.

    "Restart later" doesn't really cut it for me, because a deliberate restart may not be necessary at all.

    The issue was raised because some routes to a reboot produced no warning at all, so it could be that the patch for that has introduced the extra layer where it was not needed.
  3. LDW

    LDW Member

    Good point. I agree.

    Ah! Excellent! So does 'DISMISS' in fact not mean "RESTART LATER" but "DON'T RESTART AT ALL"? That is NOT what was described in answer to my previous (pretentious!) post.

    If that is indeed the case, the disambiguation should be RESTART NOW / CANCEL SCHEDULING.

    I do think some clarity on this point (ie the true meaning of DISMISS) would be helpful.
  4. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    It's not "cancel scheduling" either. It is hard to express in only a few words: "dismiss this message and take personal responsibility for making sure there is a reboot of some kind (either as a timed wake-up or by manual intervention) before anything that's in the pending queue needs to take effect".

    An event needs to arrive in the schedule before it is timed to take effect; in order to be transferred to the schedule there has to be a reboot. Taking effect means being present in the schedule if the Humax is awake prior to the scheduled time (minus 15 minutes if AR), or being present in the schedule prior to the previous turn-off (if the event is supposed to wake the Humax from standby, it has to be in the schedule so that the Humax can set its next wake up time before sleep).

    Thus, to be safe, there has to be two reboots between the submission to the pending queue and the actual recording event (including the reboot that is the wake-up to perform the recording). You cannot have an event in the pending queue for a recording starting in half an hour (say), and put the Humax into standby expecting that it will wake up and make the recording - it won't.

    Consequently it depends how soon the event is. If you are scheduling a recording that must start in the next half hour, do a manual restart to get the pending event into the schedule ASAP. If it's a couple of days away, just the normal sleep/wake cycling (presuming you don't keep the Humax awake all day every day) will be sufficient. We don't like forcing a reboot if we can avoid it, because although it usually works OK it sometimes doesn't and we don't really know why.

    Once scheduled from the WebIF (or indeed the Remote Scheduler), events remain in the pending queue until there is a reboot, when the CF transfers them to the schedule (unless you delete them from the pending queue first).

    Is that clear enough?
  5. LDW

    LDW Member

    Thank you BH - that is indeed clear enough - even for me. :)

    So if I click WAIT and then turn off the computer, does the box remember the recording I want to schedule?

    If it does, I suggest the following - or something like:


    Click RESTART NOW to schedule the recording immediately. *
    Click WAIT to schedule the recording the next time the Humax is restarted.


    * Warning: with the RESTART NOW option there is a small chance that the Humax may not restart without physical intervention (ie pressing the standby button or using the remote control). After the restart you would be wise to check that the recording has in fact been scheduled.



    1. Have I now understood the meaning of DISMISS?

    2. If the small chance happens and the RESTART NOW option fails, will any sign of this be apparent to the user? Or will it look as if everything has worked properly when in fact it hasn't?

    3. Are the above messages brief enough and explanatory enough?

    One last point. If the box is in the recording state, a WebIf restart is impossible; without a restart a further 'urgent' recording cannot be scheduled through the WebIf. So if the box is already recording ("busy") a further 'urgent' recording cannot be scheduled through the WebIf.

    If so, a bit more info than 'Cannot restart while box is busy' would be helpful. How about:


    Désolé! Your recording cannot be scheduled because the Humax is already recording another programme.

    If your recording is not urgent, click WAIT and it will be scheduled the next time the Humax is started.

    If your programme will begin before the next routine restart (eg the next time you switch on the Humax), it cannot be scheduled via the WebIf and must be scheduled from the box itself.


    Attached Files:

  6. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Yes, once an event is in the pending queue the rest is independent of the computer / remote scheduler. The queue is held and actioned on the Humax.


    The box drops to standby and fails to wake up again! You would notice (the WebIF will fail to refresh). You have to go and press the on button (front panel or remote control), I'm not sure whether it would wake itself for a timed event in this state (never dared risk it).

    That's the problem. Once you know this, there is no need to spell it out. "Dismiss" is as good as anything, the rest is education.

    Correct. Love the "désolé", but it would score highly on the FRML scale.
  7. LDW

    LDW Member

    I find this most interesting. My crystal ball tells me that you are an engineer.

    If one is not meticulous about accuracy in engineering the project doesn't work. It interests me that people who are meticulous in one sphere would be so casual about accuracy in another.

    Definition of dismiss (Oxford):

    • order or allow to leave; send away: she dismissed the taxi at the corner of the road
    • remove from employment or office, typically on the grounds of unsatisfactory performance: the prime minister dismissed five members of his cabinet
    • [no object] (of a group assembled under someone’s authority) disperse: he told his company to dismiss
    • Cricket end the innings of (a batsman or a side): Australia were dismissed for 118
    • treat as unworthy of serious consideration: it would be easy to dismiss him as all brawn and no brain
    • deliberately cease to think about: he suspected a double meaning in her words, but dismissed the thought
    • Law refuse further hearing to (a case): the judge dismissed the case for lack of evidence"
    None of the above is how dismiss is being used in this context.

    Language works - or should do - just like a machine - accurately, concisely, efficiently. Its function is communication - and this is not a lowly function, but the highest one. If we cannot communicate to the user how our engineered item is to be used, then the item is as good as useless.

    User manuals. I love 'em.
  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Funny, the "send away" definition works for me.

    The meaning of language is a matter of opinion, dictionaries only record and report what opinion has been in the past. It's a moving target. Having a foot in both camps (engineering and tech authoring) I have tried to be precise about function and ended up with documents three times longer than anyone was prepared to read.

    It has been more effective to coin terms which summarise (encapsulate a meaning if you like), and then use some kind of glossary or footnote to explain the exact meaning of that term in the particular context. It thus becomes jargon within the very specific sphere - and then widely-used jargon leaks out into the public domain and eventually into dictionaries. This is why legal documents are long and torturous, and the words within have specific meanings in law which are different from their common interpretation.

    If we agree that "dismiss" (or whatever short phrase you prefer) is understood to mean (in this particular context) "go away, yes I am aware of the consequences" then as long as there is an explanation somewhere the initiated need not be confronted with the full explanation every time. Otherwise we end up faced with the likes of the Apple AppStore Ts&Cs.
  9. 4291

    4291 Well-Known Member

    When my iPad2 displays a low battery warning it has a button in the window marked 'Dismiss'
  10. LDW

    LDW Member

    Good. It seems we have reached something like a solution. How do we action it?
  11. LDW

    LDW Member

    Can I contribute something?