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Satellite Dish Connection
- Thread starter John N
- Start date
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
You need Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 inputs connected in order to make use of both tuners for watching or recording two programmes at once. With only one input fed from the dish (and then linked from Tuner 1 output to Tuner 2 input), you are limited to what second service you can watch/record - the second service has to come from the same "group"* as the first (with two independent feeds to Tuner 1 and Tuner 2 from a dual output LNB you would have complete independent selection for both services).
In order to receive any signal from the LNB, it has to be supplied with power and some control signals. These are fed up the the cable from the receiver. If the Foxsat is in standby, it isn't feeding power or control to the LNB so nothing will come back to pass through to the TV. If the Foxsat is on, then the only signals that can pass through the Tuner 1 output to the TV will be those from the same "group" that the Foxsat Tuner 1 is currently receiving, and the functionality of the Foxsat will be crippled by having no input to Tuner 2 (it does not expect to have no input at all to Tuner 2, although it can be configured to have either an independent input or a link from Tuner 1).
The best way to do this is to have a triple-output LNB at the dish with three cables to feed Foxsat Tuner 1 and Tuner 2, and the TV. The second best way is to have a dual-output LNB feeding the Foxsat Tuner 1 and Tuner 2, and leave the Foxsat on all the time so that it is always available to the TV's HDMI input. Having only one downlink from the dish is the least good way.
* The signal from the satellite is divided into four groups by the combinations of vertical or horizontal polarization, and low or high frequency band. The LNB must be told which polarization and frequency band to receive and send down the cable, so with only one cable you can only receive a quarter of the total available services at any one time. The selection is made by the satellite receiver box modulating control info onto the voltage that is sent up the cable to power the LNB, so it is not possible to "split" the cable to feed several receivers.
In order to receive any signal from the LNB, it has to be supplied with power and some control signals. These are fed up the the cable from the receiver. If the Foxsat is in standby, it isn't feeding power or control to the LNB so nothing will come back to pass through to the TV. If the Foxsat is on, then the only signals that can pass through the Tuner 1 output to the TV will be those from the same "group" that the Foxsat Tuner 1 is currently receiving, and the functionality of the Foxsat will be crippled by having no input to Tuner 2 (it does not expect to have no input at all to Tuner 2, although it can be configured to have either an independent input or a link from Tuner 1).
The best way to do this is to have a triple-output LNB at the dish with three cables to feed Foxsat Tuner 1 and Tuner 2, and the TV. The second best way is to have a dual-output LNB feeding the Foxsat Tuner 1 and Tuner 2, and leave the Foxsat on all the time so that it is always available to the TV's HDMI input. Having only one downlink from the dish is the least good way.
* The signal from the satellite is divided into four groups by the combinations of vertical or horizontal polarization, and low or high frequency band. The LNB must be told which polarization and frequency band to receive and send down the cable, so with only one cable you can only receive a quarter of the total available services at any one time. The selection is made by the satellite receiver box modulating control info onto the voltage that is sent up the cable to power the LNB, so it is not possible to "split" the cable to feed several receivers.
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I have this second option you mention...
My dish was installed and I have two two output cables to Humax.....is it possible that the dish may have a third output which is not used?
Thank you,...I thought it might work like my Panasonic DVD recorder, where I have an Rf in from Terrestial aerial and an Rf out to my TV....in this situation I can watch channels from my Terrestial aerial with my DVD recorder switched off!
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Yes, and of course we can do the same with our HDR-FOX T2 Freeview recorders. Terrestrial is not the same as satellite; it does not require control signals or power sent up the cable.
Sorry, I misread your post and thought you only had the one downlink.
Probably not.
What you could do is link Tuner 1 output to Tuner 2, configure the Foxsat for one input, and use the second cable for the TV. This would limit the range of services you could record a second simultaneous programme from, but it would mean you could use the TV Freesat without the Foxsat being on.
Thank you again.....I thought the lnb1 out was a 'pass through' of lnb1 in!.
My main interest was that I am about to buy a new TV and wondered if the TV. had a Freesat tuner could I take advantage of it?...however I think I will go for my favoured tv with HD Freeview tuner only, for my Terrestial aerial connection and obtain freesat as now via my Humax tuners.
Trev
The Dumb One
I see no reason why your idea won't work, although the limitations to the TV will be that you will only be able to 'see' the same stuff as tuner one on the foxsat. But just as a matter of interest, why do you want to do what you are suggesting?
To do the job properly, you need a separate feed from the LNB to the TV. Your LNB will possibly have 4 outputs. If so, just stick in a new feeder from one of the spare outputs to the TV. If it only has two outputs, then you need a new quad output LNB.
Another thing to watch is that there is a difference between a 'Freesat' TV tuner and a 'Satellite' TV tuner. The latter does not have the freesat/freview type EPG. If it only says 'Satellite', it's not a Freesat set.
To do the job properly, you need a separate feed from the LNB to the TV. Your LNB will possibly have 4 outputs. If so, just stick in a new feeder from one of the spare outputs to the TV. If it only has two outputs, then you need a new quad output LNB.
Another thing to watch is that there is a difference between a 'Freesat' TV tuner and a 'Satellite' TV tuner. The latter does not have the freesat/freview type EPG. If it only says 'Satellite', it's not a Freesat set.
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On my existing TV I get a much better picture via satellite than Terrestial Freeview and if this is the case on a new tv I wanted to try and have the option of always using Satellite......but I'm now hoping the HD Freeview tuner on new TVs will be an improvement on my old existing!
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
"Much better picture" in what way? If the existing TV doesn't have a HiDef tuner (typically described as "HD Ready" - ie it has a HiDef screen but relies on an external HDMI source for HiDef video), it will only be receiving the StDef services internally. I believe there are more HiDef services on satellite than Freeview.
Just fit a quad-LNB and you're covered. If you need to go to the trouble of installing another downlink cable, a new LNB isn't much extra expense and somebody has to get up to the dish anyway...
Just fit a quad-LNB and you're covered. If you need to go to the trouble of installing another downlink cable, a new LNB isn't much extra expense and somebody has to get up to the dish anyway...
Trev
The Dumb One
That's strange, there is not normally much, if any, difference between Freeview and satellite signal PQ, unless of course you are comparing HD from sat with SD Freeview (BH beat me to it). I can detect no difference between the PQ from my Foxsat Freesat PVR, FoxT2 Freview PVR, my Samsung TV on Freesat or the TV on Freeview. They all look the same to me as long as I am comparing like for like sources.
If you want to 'always use satellite' on your TV, then do as BH said in the last paragraphs of post#4 or #8 above.
What TV are you thinking of getting? But please be aware of the Satellite/Freesat gocha.
If you want to 'always use satellite' on your TV, then do as BH said in the last paragraphs of post#4 or #8 above.
What TV are you thinking of getting? But please be aware of the Satellite/Freesat gocha.
That was my thinking
There are. Many more. Whether you would want to watch most of them is a different matter.
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Panasonic TX 40 DX 600B!....
grahamlthompson
Well-Known Member
You can use tuner 1 out to feed a TV satellite tuner. I do just that with my Foxsat-HDR.
Firstly the box must be set to low power sby.
In low power sby the TV will have access to all channels - The TV tuner has full control of the LNB.
When the Foxsat-HDR is on, recording in sby or within 15 mins of an accurate recording then the Foxsat tuner 1 has lnb control.
The channels you can watch on the TV depend on the band (high/low) and polarisation (Vertical/Horizontal) of the channel tuner 1 of the Foxsat is using.
This gives 4 possible combinations. However the Freesat epg has only a very few high band channels (none of them the mainstream ones). This means a little bit less than 50% of the available channels will be viewable on the TV (and record if it's a smart TV). All you need now is to know what channels are in each of the 4 variations.
That info can be downloaded in Excel or HTML (viewable in a browser) from the thread here. Bear in mind that BBC SD regions exist in both horizontal and vertical polarisation options. This means that provided the Foxsat is using a low band channel then BBC 1 SD can always be recorded using the TV.
https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/what-can-i-record-and-watch-using-1-or-2-cables
Firstly the box must be set to low power sby.
In low power sby the TV will have access to all channels - The TV tuner has full control of the LNB.
When the Foxsat-HDR is on, recording in sby or within 15 mins of an accurate recording then the Foxsat tuner 1 has lnb control.
The channels you can watch on the TV depend on the band (high/low) and polarisation (Vertical/Horizontal) of the channel tuner 1 of the Foxsat is using.
This gives 4 possible combinations. However the Freesat epg has only a very few high band channels (none of them the mainstream ones). This means a little bit less than 50% of the available channels will be viewable on the TV (and record if it's a smart TV). All you need now is to know what channels are in each of the 4 variations.
That info can be downloaded in Excel or HTML (viewable in a browser) from the thread here. Bear in mind that BBC SD regions exist in both horizontal and vertical polarisation options. This means that provided the Foxsat is using a low band channel then BBC 1 SD can always be recorded using the TV.
https://myhumax.org/forum/topic/what-can-i-record-and-watch-using-1-or-2-cables
Would a new dish be required if existing is not equipped to take another cable...or are all dishes standard with quad Lnb or can some form of adapter be fitted to obtain quad ?
Trev
The Dumb One
No new dish unless it's knackered. If the LNB is not a quad output one, you just swap it. You may need an adapter depending on the age of the Sky dish. You cannot split LNB feeders. One output to one tuner.
grahamlthompson
Well-Known Member
Wiyj
A standard Sky dish will have a quad 4 output lnb if only two cables was wired for the Foxsat (giving two spare outputs). A octo (8 output can easily be fitted). However see my post you can use tuner 1 out with a few restrictions despite what Black Hole says (The Foxsat does not have to be on). I would try it out at least in the interim. If you understand the restrictions there is not much you cannot do) especially if the TV has a terrestrial aerial as well.
A standard Sky dish will have a quad 4 output lnb if only two cables was wired for the Foxsat (giving two spare outputs). A octo (8 output can easily be fitted). However see my post you can use tuner 1 out with a few restrictions despite what Black Hole says (The Foxsat does not have to be on). I would try it out at least in the interim. If you understand the restrictions there is not much you cannot do) especially if the TV has a terrestrial aerial as well.
grahamlthompson
Well-Known Member
You can split a lnb connection, tuner 1 out on the Foxsat does exactly that. To do so though requires you understand the limitations of the channels the tuner without lnb control is able to access.
You are correct the Panasonic only has the Freeview tuner, and I would use this with the two Humax satellite tuners.
I had been thinking of the need for a TV with Sat tuner but overall I think the Panasonic is the better tv and I can get by with good pq with either tuners....confirmed by posts!
grahamlthompson
Well-Known Member
You have to use a splitter designed to pass control signals on one output only. This is what tuner 1 out on a foxsat does when the the box is on or in recording sby. A Foxsat when used in single cable mode tuner 2 (or the TV as in the above example) has no control, the chained tuner though has full access to all the channels in the band/polarisation the lnb is currently switched to. The Foxsat though adds full control loopthrough from tuner 1 out back to the lnb when in low power sby (The key item of information Black Hole didn't know, though why he makes incorrect assumptions and then post them as facts you would have to ask him
). The way the Foxsat works with the loop out has been fully understood and documented since 2008).The only other thing the Foxsat does is be aware of just what second channels can be recorded when used in single cable mode. If will not let you make a second recording reservation that is not possible due to tuner 1 recording schedule.
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
You're right, I didn't. I incorrectly assumed that a satellite tuner pass-through wouldn't fiddle about enabling/disabling local or downstream power-and-command injection on the uplink (which is quite demanding. technically, and I wouldn't have expected to be a common requirement).The Foxsat though adds full control loopthrough from tuner 1 out back to the lnb when in low power sby (The key item of information Black Hole didn't know, though why he makes incorrect assumptions and then post them as facts you would have to ask him
However, the benefit of a forum is that incorrect "facts" are easily corrected, and I see no reason to be sarky about it. Where I get snippy is when people refuse to acknowledge they are wrong.