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Scrambled EPG after 17/10 Freeview Update

Discussion in 'HDR-FOX T2 Freeview Recorder' started by rafletcher, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    Quite odd really. On the occasion of the previous retune (9/9 I think) the Hummy did it's auot-search thing (I had no idea in advance anything was going to happen, as I don't frequent here unless I have problems!!) and, apart from all the dross returninf to the EPG and of course the deletion of all scheduled recordings, all was well. The EPG looked fine, and ITV1, Ch4 and Ch5 were 3rd, 4th and 5th in the list of available channels WITH EPG information, as expected. (I should add the we can allegedly recieve from Oxford, Crystal Palace and Sandy Heath. When the DSO happened we got channels from all 3 but the CP and SH ones soon dropped out of their own accord, and looking at the Digital UK postcode checker they haven't had a 17/10 retune event. Oxford has (I was away on business untile late yesterday, so asked wife to leave the Hummy on and let it do it's thing as it worked ok the last time (sigh)), and now I have BBC1 & 2 as lines 1 & 2 on my EPG WITH EPG content shown, but lines 3,4 & 5, although headed ITV1, Ch4 & Ch5 have NO EPG content shown - that's now against duplicate listings in the 800's.

    I thought 800's were from a different tranmitter, but I can't understand why the Hummy would pick 2 channels from one transmitter and 3 from another (though I can quite believe it bloody well would/could!!)

    A simple explanation would be helpful :), thanks.

    I have looked at the instructions for a manual retune, but that won't, I don't think, get the EPG sorted so channels 1 through 5 are vack at the top of the EPG listing. I will admit I was knackered, so haven't checked to see if selecting line 3 on the EPG (ITV1 with no programme info) actually gets me ITV1!
  2. Brian

    Brian Administrator Staff Member

    It sounds very much like you Do need to perform a manual retune!
  3. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    I was afraid you'd say that! Edit - but will that get ITV back on line 3 of the EPG??
  4. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

    Yes that is exactly what will happen.
  5. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    Hmm, ok, and thanks.
  6. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    What's happened here is that your sub-800 services got selected from two or more regions, with some of the correct services ending up in the 800s. The EPG data cannot get populated unless a tuner is tuned to a multiplex within that group - take your duplicate ITV1 for example, located at LCN 3. It is from a different region than the surrounding services, and the will be no data feed for it unless you actively tune to the region it is from. The correct ITV1 has been shunted off to the 800s, and that's where the data is going.

    As said, the cure is to perform a manual tune to ensure the correct (and only) multiplexes are being received. See HERE (click), section 2.
  7. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    Your hot link no worky (this time - oops it does now!) but I'd already been there (I'm guessing it's the "what everyone should know" section) and printed the instructions for a manual retune :)

    What's irritating is that in the September one everything was fine and dandy. maybe the weather yesterday played a part - it was atrocious - so I'll try an auto-retune again this evening to see if it corrects itsel, and if not I'll just have to do a manual one.

    EDIT: On the Oxford transmitter info, the multiplex channel BBCA (for example) is 53+, and D3&4 are 60-, whilst BBC HD is 57 (no + or -). So what do the + and - represent?
  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    You probably got to it before I edited the link in.

    Probably the best way to confirm a satisfactory auto-tune is to make a note of your transmitter details (as per the manual tune instructions - I have my list in my diary) and then check the results against it. You can find the list of currently tuned multiplexes via Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection >> OK. If that list matches your list (with no extras) you're good to go.

    The channel numbers are short-hand for UHF frequencies, with an 8MHz increment between channels (the sound sub-carrier is +5MHz, irrelevant for digital TV). Channel 21 starts at 471.25MHz, up to channel 69 at 855.25MHz (frequency/MHz = 303.25 + 8*ch.no). The + and - indicate the multiplex is not being transmitted at the proper channel frequency, probably to avoid interference with multiplexes from neighbouring transmitters (8MHz is insufficient separation, in the analogue days it would be two channel numbers minimum). This is not a problem for the tuning process, sufficient signal will be picked up at the standard channel frequency for the receiver to lock on and then home in.
  9. socrates

    socrates Member

    It may be useful to say that by far the easiest way to see what channels you have tuned is to use the channel information button on the diagnostics page of the web interface. So much better than trying to note it all down from the Humax's own settings menu.

    I knew I was receiving from more than one transmitter because I had transmitter channels in the 800+ range but a quick look at that page showed I was actually picking up 4! And needless to say some of the ones with the best reception had been shunted into the 800s. Armed with the postcode checker printout and the channel information page its child's play to sort out the channel numbers needed for best signal strength and quality and then you're all set to retune.
  10. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    What web inerface are you referring to? I assume you mean the one you can get at by connecting your Hummy to t'internet? I did have this for a while, but disable it after a couple of instances of the box freezing whilst I was looking through the media menu (which I read somewhere might have been caused by something to do with the web connection). Anyway I do know what transmitters we can connect to - after the DSO I had three of most of the channels to pick from, but the Hummy seemed to "learn" that Oxford is the strongest - until yesterday!!
  11. socrates

    socrates Member

    Yes, that's the one. I've never had a problem with freezing but maybe lucky so far.

    I appreciate there are other ways to get the transmitter info but thought this route might be worth highlighting for anyone else browsing since it is so convenient.

    Others will know better than I but I don't think the Humax does learn which is strongest. For example in my case Ridge Hill is strongest across the board but on 2 of it's 6 muxes all the channels are kicked into the 800 range in favour of weaker signals from Wenvoe. I assume it's something to do with the order of tuning, though as Ridge Hill is the lowest frequency band I'm not sure how.
  12. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    Well I've never had to do a manual tune before despite being in range (if you consider Ayelsbury to be "in range" of Crystal Palace!!) of thre transmitters, and the september retune went without a hitch - so I'm hoping atmosphrics last night disrupted signal acquisition and an auto-retune tonight will resolve that!
  13. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

    Why not just do a manual tune; it is quicker than waiting for an automatic retune to scan all the muxes twice.
  14. rafletcher

    rafletcher Member

    'Cos I can set it to autotune whilst I cook tea :) ands I'm guessing I'll still get all the crap channels to clear out whether I do manual or auto tune.
  15. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Not actually the Internet, but at least the home network (with custom firmware). I refer to non-custom ways of doing things wherever possible when the topic is posted in the uncustomised forum, hence the Menu >> Settings...

    The custom firmware / software has had very rapid development and attention to bugs; many things have been fixed including jam-ups when the online services can't be reached. I have auto-update configured (despite refusing to allow Humax updates) so my package list get updated whenever one gets rolled out.
  16. socrates

    socrates Member

    I'm still pretty new to the Humax myself but as I understand it the reason to do a manual retune rather than auto is to avoid picking up from more than one transmitter. And the reason to avoid multiple transmitters is because the Humax can get its epg in a twist if you don't.

    This doesn't mean that you can't happily view programmes from multiple transmitters or that recordings will not work - just that the particular recording you really want might not work. This has happened to me and I was assured that was the reason. I must admit I haven't yet got round to manually retuning and I would prefer not to have to but if that's what it takes to be sure of reliable recording then so be it.

    BTW - when you refer to getting rid of crap channels do you mean the 800+ ones or real crap ( shopping channels etc ). If you manually tune to a single transmitter you won't get the 800s but you'll still get the real crap. I just leave them be and put the handful I use into favourites.
  17. Ezra Pound

    Ezra Pound Well-Known Member

    There is another reason to avoid 800's apart from EPG problems, there have been reports of it 'cocking-up' Acurate Recording Start and Stop flags, so if you are going to keep 800's (and I would recommend that you don't) then it would be safer to also not use AR by enabling Padding
  18. antipodean

    antipodean Member

    I tried doing a manual tune on mine, and it wouldn't find a signal on the HD mux (Oxford transmitter), along with another couple of channels. I ended up just letting it do the autotune.
  19. socrates

    socrates Member

    I think that is a more accurate description of what I meant by "epg problems". As I recall I had selected a program to record from the epg and when I went to play it later the message was something about "couldn't track the programme". I was using AR and that was given as the reason. I'm currently using padding instead.

    The epg actually displays OK - the only oddity I've notice is that the ITV line is often blank and only gets populated if I switch to it.

    Just one more thought - how can I tell if an auto retune has occurred? It doesn't look as though it has but if so why not? I'm on firmware version .28. I had got it into my head that the custom firmware would stop auto retune but looking at it today the only thing I can see is the 'disable OTA', which I have set on ( but too late ). Is the only way to stop auto retune to re-install firmware version .20 ( and the reinstall CF )?
  20. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    You can tell - there will be no reservations in your recording schedule! Also (for example) the HiDef channels will now be found on 101-105 instead of 50-54.

    Regarding stopping it, I refer you to my recipe for a bomb-proof HDR (click).

    disable-dso on its own makes retunes very unlikely but not impossible. 1.02.20 converts the ones that do get through into opt-in rather than opt-out.

    disable-ota on its own makes OTA scans very unlikely but not impossible. Use an 0420-0440 daily reminder as well or instead to prevent auto-updates (with the side benefit of keeping the EPG up to date).