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Signal - Strength / Quality

#1
Trying to get my head around these..

I'm 10km from Winter Hill. Can see the mast through the window.

I'm get 100% quality on all channels (at the mo) with 50% strength on most mux's and 30% strength on a couple of others.

Does this sound right or should I be getting better strengths?
and if so... whats the possible causes? Aerial quality? Not lined up 100% correct? interference?
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
#3
I'm get 100% quality on all channels (at the mo) with 50% strength on most mux's and 30% strength on a couple of others.

Does this sound right or should I be getting better strengths?
and if so... whats the possible causes? Aerial quality? Not lined up 100% correct? interference?
I would probably expect bettter, but it does depend on the state of your receive infrastructure - all of it, from aerial to receiver!
That includes the things you mention, and others.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#4
Does this sound right or should I be getting better strengths?
If you mean with your current aerial, aerial location, installation, cabling, connectors, attenuators, amplifiers and HDR-FOX T2 should you expect different strength, then all those things will influence the signal metre. Vary those and it could be a lot lower or it could be higher.

You will not be able to get better than 100% quality. What are you attempting to achieve by your question?
If you increase the signal strength by too much the quality still won't be better than 100% and with too much signal you could face a noticeable drop in quality and some channels could become unwatchable.

Regarding the difference in strength there are a few reasons but you would need to obtain for yourself additional information concerning your metre readings and then armed with that look at what Winter Hill is broadcasting and look for a pattern, e.g. find out which 2 muxes are giving the 30% strength and which 6 are giving the 50% strength and see if with that information you can see if it is accountable by what Winter hill is broadcasting, plus see if it really is Winter Hill that you are receiving from. That why you can start to identify if it is a possibility that the 2 muxes are weaker because they are out of range of your aerial's frequency group, or because the broadcast power is lower for some frequencies, or something is up with the aerial or the state of its cabling. If you can't physically examine the entire length of the cable itself take into account what 20 years could do to a cable that hasn't been attached too well as that can (apparently!) introduce loss at selective frequencies.
Also consider what you already know about the aerial especially its likely channel range. Also look at the aerial and try to narrow down what type it is and whether all elements are still in place.

If you are still wondering about the level of signal strength despite being 100% quality then like what prpr said you should look into how the aerial and how the aerial is connected to the HDR-FOX T2. Find out if it is just a cable or if there is anything else the signal is going through on its way from the aerial to your Humax. One example is an attenuator because at one time it was getting so much signal it was damaging the quality. Depending on the aerial some times they don't really need that accurate alignment. Find out where and how the aerial is mounted, (horizontal or vertical or not really either), and if it too has line of site or is hampered by being in the loft with roof materials that are helping to shield reception of RF signals. Also check the state of the aerial and cable as well as anything else involved.

... 30% strength on a couple of others.

Does this sound right or should I be getting better strengths?
A "couple" may be appropriate or it could indicate an issue, or an issue heading your way for 2020.
If one of them is ARQ B and then you'll probably need to adjust your installation by 2020. As your aerial is 20 years old it was porbably fitted to receive the frequencies of Winter Hill as they were back then. If its 30% for ARQ B now, then it is probably going to be lower than 30% for the next Winter Hill muxes that are going to be moved even further away from the old Winter Hill frequencies in the first half of 2020.
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#5
Which Mpx give you the 30% sig?
With reference to the UKTVFree (Click) website:
Suggested aerial type will change from W to A on 31 March and you will loose all the minor MPXs other than the "Top 6". Most noticeable is likely to be com 7&8 . So if it's those you are having problems with, don't worry about it because they are going.
 
OP
OP
philbean
#7
It is ARQ-B giving me 30%

Although viewing is OK now I have suffered with dropouts in the past and was just looking at it whilst everything is working (rather than trying to figure it out when I have no signal at all)

I'm not overly worried, just thought 30% is quite low considering my closeness to the mast.
It is an old aerial so possibly that's to blame.
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#8
Having no signal at all is probably the easiest fault to find. Tracking down an intermittent one is usually a lot more difficult as Sods Law always rules.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#9
Which Mpx give you the 30% sig?
With reference to the XXXXX website:
Suggested aerial type will change from W to A on 31 March and you will loose all the minor MPXs other than the "Top 6". Most noticeable is likely to be com 7&8 . So if it's those you are having problems with, don't worry about it because they are going.
That is an independent site and is frequently incorrect. That page is currently incorrect and incomplete. On past performance you may have to wait for 3 years until the site is corrected or updated.
Far easier to just go to a site closer to the source of the information instead of using incorrect information even if it is easy to read.
For Winter Hill this link is for one of the far more accurate sources.
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/trade/BL6+6SL/NA/0/NA
Scrolling down to the winter hill section and the current UHF channel numbers are those with a grey background on the first row (currently dated 7 Mar 18).

It is ARQ-B giving me 30%

Although viewing is OK now I have suffered with dropouts in the past and was just looking at it whilst everything is working (rather than trying to figure it out when I have no signal at all)

I'm not overly worried, just thought 30% is quite low considering my closeness to the mast.
It is an old aerial so possibly that's to blame.
ARQ B is currently the MUX that is most out of the expected range for the frequencies of a typical aerial installed for Winter Hll 20 years ago.
With the information you have posted it is not pssible for anyone to definitly say that is the cause of ARQ B being one of the two 30% muxes. That ARQ B is one of your "two" muxes on lower signal strength just increases the betting odds on it being an out of date aerial causing the lower than expected readings, it does not confirm it.

You should still find out the metre reading for every single one of the multiplexes you are using.
Have you already but decided that you don't want to share?
There may be some Winter Hill muxes that are not being recieved at all. That informatiom would also be prime for starting to understand the situation.

Providing you have a standard install across all muxes that does not explain why your overall signal strength is probably a bit lower than could be expected, but as previously posted:
I would probably expect bettter, but it does depend on the state of your receive infrastructure - all of it, from aerial to receiver!
That includes the things you mention, and others.
philbean
Have you looked at your setup yet? You haven't mention anything more.
 
#10
That is an independent site and is frequently incorrect. ...
For Winter Hill this link is for one of the far more accurate sources.
http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/coveragechecker/main/trade/BL6+6SL/NA/0/NA
Totally agree, the "independent" site is good for a laugh - and not much else. For more reliable information, Digital UK is probably best. I was going to suggest http://aerialsandtv.com is reasonable, but then I found they had made a bodge of the current COM7/8 frequencies for Waltham. Nice background information though.
 
#11
philbean
I would be very surprised given what you have said on the two threads that you have started if you haven't got a C/D aerial. Some good examples of how to physically check on the websites noted above.

Optimum range of the C/D aerials is 690mhz (channel 48) and up so given that the government are planning on freeing up everything over 700mhz for mobile by 2020 the C/D aerials are going to be next to useless. I assume that there will be some kind of funded replacement scheme before that happens, however, they are probably hoping a lot of people choose to fund the swap to wideband aerials themselves before then (i did).

I notice below that the 7th March was the date winter hill officially changed from a "C/D" group aerial area to "T".

Next change isn't until end of next year if you can live with flaky channel 37 - they might be planning a free aerial swap before then???

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/93286/Q1_2018_Granada_Date_Release_V2.pdf
 
#12
Actually it looks like thy may be planning on maintaining a kind of minimum service after the switch is complete in 2020. They are moving both COM7 and COM8 to the "50"s range on winter hill which the old C/D aerials can pick up. That might mean that everyone can still receive the bulk of the HD channels on an old aerial even after the switch. All other MUXs will be into the sub 40 range though after 2020.