Standby & loss of all BBC on TV

Bill W

New Member
Hello all. New to the forum, having just installed my new HDR-FOX T2 today. I've trawled through the forum pages and couldn't find a solution to my problem:

Everything went well with the installation and all of my TV channels showed on the Fox EPG. I put the Fox into standby mode and checked the function of the channels via my Sony Bravia TV. Initially all was ok. I started to watch BBc1 (with the Fox still in standby) but after a couple of minutes BBC1 became heavily pixelated and I lost the picture and sound altogether, the screen header telling me "selected programme is not tuned".
I tried all the other BBC stations, with the Fox still in standby, and couldn't get any reception from any BBC programme, the screen header telling me the same.
All the other channels were fine through the TV with the Fox in standby - only the BBC was affected.
Next, I ensured "Power Saving in Standby" and "Auto Power Down" were both set to OFF, put the Fox in standby mode again and tried to watch BBC progs via my TV: same result.
Out of curiosity, while the Fox was still in standby mode, I auto retuned my telly: only 94 channels came up and no BBC at all, anywhere!
I then put the Fox into "start system mode" (blue light), auto retuned my TV and all 116 channels, including all BBC outputs came back!
I repeated putting the Fox in standby mode (ensuring that PSS & APD were still OFF), tried watching in TV mode and exactly the same happened: initial BBC reception, heavy pixelation then loss of BBC channels.
At no time did I lose BBC channels on the recorder's EPG.
I don't know what's going on. It's obviously a Humax related issue because this never happened with the unit it's replaced, a Panasonic.
I'd like to watch my TV and all the channels without having to have a recorder running, using unecessary electricity, otherwise what's the point of standby!?
Cheers folks!
Hoping for a solution!
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
What signal strengths and quality are reported by the Humax? Menu >> Settings >> System >> Signal Detection
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Lots of services are transmitted on each broadcast channel, so we call them multiplexes.

From Signal Detection press the right cursor arrow and a list of channel numbers will appear. Select them one by one and get the signal levels. List the results here.

On the telly, check which channel numbers it is tuned to (I can't tell you how to do that) and confirm they are the same ones.

It will also help if you tell us what transmitter you use.

I'll be going off-line in a moment, so in the mean time post as much info about your reception environment as you can. When I'm back on I will suggest your options.

I have to say, I watch very little telly without using the Humax - how else would I be able to pause it when the phone rings?
 
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Bill W

New Member
Ok Black Hole, ta. Like you going offline now but I'll try and do as you suggest asap and give you the results.
Bill
 
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Bill W

New Member
Hello Black Hole. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Work all day. Anyway, here are the results:

From Signal Detection press the right cursor arrow and a list of channel numbers will appear. Select them one by one and get the signal levels. List the results here.

Channel Strength Quality
49 78-80% 100%
50 74-77% 100%
54 76-79% 100%
55 75-76% 100%
58 73-75% 100%
59 74-76% 100%

On the telly, check which channel numbers it is tuned to (I can't tell you how to do that) and confirm they are the same ones.

They are the same ones. For info tonight I've also noticed that there are other unreceptive channels, not just BBC ones. Also all of the problem programmes are being broadcast on either channels 58 or 59.

It will also help if you tell us what transmitter you use.
Pontop Pike. Did a quick online check and no issues reported.

I'll be going off-line in a moment, so in the mean time post as much info about your reception environment as you can. When I'm back on I will suggest your options.

I have to say, I watch very little telly without using the Humax - how else would I be able to pause it when the phone rings?
I know what you're saying Black Hole. But in my case I don't use the recorder all that much, so to me leaving it in "on" mode and using all that leccy just to watch the telly is a bit like leaving the engine running on the car when you're driving it!
BTW, noticing the issue with channels 58 & 59 not responding well when the Humax is in standby mode: I figured maybeI could try and "force" the programmes onto more receptive channels? But I don't know how. I tried to go into the TVs manual tune up screen, typed the number 49 in the relevant box but it just jumped to channel 50, where there were only 8 or so programmes listed, none of them the problem ones, so I couldn't "force" say BBC1 into it (does that make sense?).
Anyway thanks in advance.
Bill
 
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Bill W

New Member
Hello Black Hole. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Work all day. Anyway, here are the results:

From Signal Detection press the right cursor arrow and a list of channel numbers will appear. Select them one by one and get the signal levels. List the results here.

Channel Strength Quality
49 78-80% 100%
50 74-77% 100%
54 76-79% 100%
55 75-76% 100%
58 73-75% 100%
59 74-76% 100%

On the telly, check which channel numbers it is tuned to (I can't tell you how to do that) and confirm they are the same ones.

They are the same ones. For info tonight I've also noticed that there are other unreceptive channels, not just BBC ones. Also all of the problem programmes are being broadcast on either channels 58 or 59.

It will also help if you tell us what transmitter you use.
Pontop Pike. Did a quick online check and no issues reported.

I'll be going off-line in a moment, so in the mean time post as much info about your reception environment as you can. When I'm back on I will suggest your options.

I have to say, I watch very little telly without using the Humax - how else would I be able to pause it when the phone rings?
I know what you're saying Black Hole. But in my case I don't use the recorder all that much, so to me leaving it in "on" mode and using all that leccy just to watch the telly is a bit like leaving the engine running on the car when you're driving it!
BTW, noticing the issue with channels 58 & 59 not responding well when the Humax is in standby mode: I figured maybeI could try and "force" the programmes onto more receptive channels? But I don't know how. I tried to go into the TVs manual tune up screen, typed the number 49 in the relevant box but it just jumped to channel 50, where there were only 8 or so programmes listed, none of them the problem ones, so I couldn't "force" say BBC1 into it (does that make sense?).
Anyway thanks in advance.
Bill

PS Sorry for the bad formatting in the signal results, it was spaced better when I typed it! Also meant to say when you're not driving it..................!
 
Though you may have a problem with your box, you might like to buy a passive signal splitter (I got mine cheaply from Tesco's) and send one signal to your TV and one to the Humax. That would make you not reliant on the Humax's passthrough circuitry.

By the way, do you have an amplified signal from your antenna?

Martin
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I was going to suggest a splitter too, but it side-steps a potential issue rather than solving it. There appears to be enough signal to share around. My thoughts are that if an abnormality can be identified with the HDR-FOX in question, we should advise a warranty return. If you do use a splitter, you can set power saving = on and save a few more watt-hours!

Those channel numbers look very close together (they are correct, I looked them up). I wonder if something in the "inactive" pass-through is causing intermodulation?

By the way Bill, you could have edited your post to correct it.
 
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Bill W

New Member
Much obliged again Martin & Black Hole.
I also thought of a splitter - might give it a try (but it irks that I should have to attach something to make do what the Humax itself should be basically capable of). Couple of more questions please gents:
1. Does using a splitter have any adverse effect on signal strength or quality?
2. Martin - don't think I have an amplified signal. It's just a standard loft fitted antenna, 7 years old, with no amplification equipment near it.
3. Black Hole - is it your hunch that perhaps my new Fox box has some inherent fault? Just bought it from John Lewis a few days ago so I don't think there'd be an issue with a return (or refund!). And what exactly is "inactive" pass through and intermodulation? Is it likely to become a bigger problem? Notably as well my two previous units - both Panasonic- were virtual "plug-and-play" without all this palaver, lending weight to the suspicion that my Humax unit is dodgy?
4. Am I getting too precious about how much power the unit uses in "on" mode as opposed to standby? What are the comparative figures/costs? (I note that the manual tells us what the standby usage is and not the operational consumption). For the time being I've set the unit to come on/turn off by timer to save overnight wastage!
The irony of all this is that I've not even had the time to test record functions or anything else yet!! Hope more problems don't materialize!!
Grateful for your time.
Bill
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
Regarding power, the specification says 28W max, so if left on permanently it would consume (max) 4.7kWh per week (about a pound's worth). The difference between power saving in standby = off or = on, I don't know for sure but the reason for it is to get the standby power under government directive 1W figure. If the difference were 1W it would represent 10 units (£2) per year.

The government drive for power economy is not because of cost to us (although it may become so if bills rise significantly), but to try to reduce the overall power requirement (and therefore generation) for the population as a whole.

A splitter will send just under half the signal power to each device. From your figures it looks like you have enough signal to do that. As it happens I have my TV feed from a separate output on a distribution amp, so I would not notice if had a similar problem to you.

Unfortunately I cannot decide whether you have a faulty Humax or not. Digital TV reception is as dependent on the signal not being too strong as it is not being too weak. There is a possibility that slight differences in the output from the Humax in normal running or standby just pushes the signal over the edge for the TV. The issue with intermodulation is closely spaced signal frequencies interfering with each other. In the days of analogue TV, channels would be spaced at least 3 numbers apart to avoid interference. In your channel group, there are two pairs only one channel apart! This could lead to problems particularly if the signal is being amplified too much.

Were it me in your position, I would have a play with attenuators either before or after the Humax to try to figure out what the reception conditions are - but you don't want to be buying a set of attenuators just to do that. Try a splitter, and if it solves the problem don't worry about it any more.
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
1. Does using a splitter have any adverse effect on signal strength or quality?
Obviously - you don't get something for nothing in this life. You get just less than half signal to each output. If you have enough to start with (which, given your figures above, you do) then it will have no effect on quality.
It might even improve things if you have slightly too much signal.

3. Black Hole - is it your hunch that perhaps my new Fox box has some inherent fault?
It's difficult to say conclusively without specialist test gear e.g. test meter, spectrum analyser.

Can you get signal strength/quality readings from your TV both when working properly and not? And possibly with the Humax out of circuit as well?
 

HarveyB

Active Member
Would it be possible to test it, in line, with a different TV. Ideally at a neighbour/friends.
Preferably on same transmitter.
At least this would determine whether it was likely to be the Humax or not ....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Personally, I think the Fox has a fault.

The fact that:

with the Fox operational the TV picks up lots of channels;
with the Fox in standby the TV picks up a selective reduced set of channels;

when there should be no difference, to me, indicates a problem within the box.

Not knowing the exact signal passthrough circuitry means, as prpr says, it is impossible to say definitely without further detailed testing.

Martin
 

SandyMac

Member
I had some problems with my Hummy when HD arrived in my region. Although I seemed to have a strong enough signal, it would appear that this was not the case. I easily solved the problem by slightly adjusting the loft aerial (whilst my wife checked the signal strength). Try this or ask a neighbour if you can test on their TV (different aerial). This will, at least, tell you if you have a problem with the Hummy (which I doubt). ;)
 
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Bill W

New Member
Ok first off thanks Black Hole, prpr HarveyB, MartinOnline & SandyMac. All replies digested & noted. Really appreciate your interest & time. (Special mention to Black Hole for the detailed info & advice).
As I write good news. Splitter in situ and so far all's working well! All problem channels back on telly while Humax in standby, and no discernable loss of picture or sound quality. (Been like this for about 3 hours, whereas before TV picture on problem channels only stayed for 3 minutes).
Humax itself seems fine, although I haven't yet tested all functions.
Splitter itself is only a £2.50 bit of kit from B&Q by the way, but if things start going iffy again I'll get a more solid device.
Dunno if anyone's interested in the channels signal readings with the splitter attached, as compared to the initial readings I gave earlier, but here goes:
Ch49 Strength 68
Ch50 46/48
Ch54 54/55
Ch55 51/53
Ch58 51/52
Ch59 48/50

Signal quality is 100% throughout.

Being the eternal pessimist I'm expecting some other gremlin to surface but I know where to come if need be.
I'll report back in a day or two when I've had the chance to test a few more functions on the Humax (and assuming my TV programmes behave).
So thanks again everyone.
Cheers
Bill
 
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