Subtitle Sync problem

C

Criky

New Member
Disabled fellow refusing to change my well used and well understood HDR Fox T2. Subtitle problems. Up to date on software with FHTCP 1.03.12

1. Started some time back, subtitles became considerably out of sync with picture on playback. (Deafness part of my other problems). Would usually start off fine but if a quiet patch in the picture, the subs would keep rolling and show up in advance of voice. Often by quite a few seconds. When voices returned I am getting 'advance' subtitles as they have been steadily running during quiet patch.

2. Temporary fix has been to 'backwind' with left arrow button when voice and sub would sync properly for short period. But would not last long and revert to advanced subs.

3. So subs running at different speed to picture.

4. I have suspected this is more of a problem on some channels than others although I have no facts on this. Does feel though that the 'big 4' maintain sync better than the 'newcomers'.

5. Be grateful for any ideas. As a side issue I do believe this model has better features than latest Humax so do not want to change.
Many thanks............
 
Out of sync subtitles on the HDR Fox T2 is s problem as old as HDR Fox T2 itself and certainly won't be fixed now, things to try include your re-wind, but also a simple Pause then Play, or even switching off and then back on the subtitles, although you may have to also wait for the subtitles to re-appear which seems to take much longer than it should

All in all not very good work arounds, but I'll be surprised if anyone comes up with anything better when using the HDR-Fox T2
 
Criky said:
Disabled fellow refusing to change my well used and well understood HDR Fox T2. Subtitle problems. Up to date on software with FHTCP 1.03.12

1. Started some time back, subtitles became considerably out of sync with picture on playback. (Deafness part of my other problems). Would usually start off fine but if a quiet patch in the picture, the subs would keep rolling and show up in advance of voice. Often by quite a few seconds. When voices returned I am getting 'advance' subtitles as they have been steadily running during quiet patch.

2. Temporary fix has been to 'backwind' with left arrow button when voice and sub would sync properly for short period. But would not last long and revert to advanced subs.
Click to expand...
I faced this problem and whilst it was just about acceptable on BBC1 it was hopeless on ITV channels. In the end I bought an FVP-5000T. It definitely has far more quirks than the HDR-FOX T2 and some additional features but most importantly for me subtitles work perfectly on all the channels I have tried. The only subtitle related quirk is that they are sometimes displayed when not requested but a couple of clicks on the SUB button gets rid of them.
 
Is this problem only on playback, not live viewing? From the OP I assume yes, and that the drift is not constant (as if it were using the wrong frame rate) but depends on the audio content.

While I'm aware that this is a longstanding issue and share EP's scepticism that it might be fixed, even with the CF, what about these troubleshooting suggestions?
  • (In a CF set-up) does it matter whether the recording has been decrypted?
  • (In a multi-Humax set-up) does the same problem appear when the recording is viewed using DLNA?
  • Does remuxing a problem recording (eg using latest ffmpeg on box, or some other tool on a networked PC) have any effect?
 
I think subtitles users fall into one of two groups:-

1) people with a hearing disorder or a desire to make no noise for some reason
2) people who only use subtitles in order to retrieve specific blocks of lost speech

No. 1 above would I guess use both live and playback subtitles, whereas group 2 (which currently includes me), would never really use live subtitles, unless maybe I was watching a monologue by Eddie Redmayne, the king of the mumblers
 
Many thanks so far.
1. Had done a quick look for previous reports but clearly missed things as guess this has been a well worn topic.
2. Main live tv and subs is fine.
3. I'm only 1% techy and wondering if a translation of - /df - reply which is clearly well founded may provide any things I ought to try.
4. Opening by EP supports what I am already doing in looking for a same model replacement.
5. Whilst bit off topic I had earlier looked at latest model which seems to have less functionality. If remembered properly its forwards jump ( advert hopping) and its reverse jump (7secs) were no longer there. In a word does latest model ( forgot model) have same, better or worse functionality. Might go on Christmas list.
I am grateful for the replies, expertise and interest that still clearly exists on the T2.
 
If it's any consolation our Humax 1010S (Freesat) box is just as bad as our FOX boxes. Just minutes ago I had to do the 'rewind a few seconds' trick to get the subtitles back in sync during the latter (tedious) stages of War of the Worlds.
It won't be fixed unless hell freezes over.
 
Criky said:
If remembered properly its forwards jump ( advert hopping) and its reverse jump (7secs) were no longer there. In a word does latest model ( forgot model) have same, better or worse functionality.
Click to expand...
The FVP-5000T does have forward and backward skip however there are no longer dedicated buttons to use. You press the play button which brings up the time line and then use the left or right arrow (on either side of the OK button) to skip backward or forward. Skip duration is configurable as previously. It takes a little bit of getting used to but becomes second nature before too long.

The Youview boxes DTR-2000T and later are also reported to have properly working subtitles if you want an alternative; sadly I don't know much about the Youview boxes.
 
Is the problem the same on SD and HD?
I found when working on detectads that there could be up to 27 video frames per second on HD broadcasts which could cause creeping out of sync if the subtitles assume 25 fps.
 
MymsMan said:
Is the problem the same on SD and HD?
Click to expand...
It certainly happens on both.
I thought it used to be worse on minor channels, like More 4, but it's basically poor on all if there is a substantial quiet period - BBC, minors, HD, SD, terrestrial, satellite. I assume it's some dodgy Humax software.
 
MymsMan said:
I found when working on detectads that there could be up to 27 video frames per second on HD broadcasts which could cause creeping out of sync if the subtitles assume 25 fps.
Click to expand...
Most of my viewing is SD and it would always go horribly out of synch on ITV and not great on BBC.
 
Many thanks to those who responded to my subtitle sync problem. I have learnt a few things about my Fox and a bit of the latest model FVP-5000T. Basically its left arrow, or pause or start again with no fix available. Spose I could learn to lip read but too late for that . So I'm turning my eye to the FVP-5000T which I hope can deal with subs properly. To respect different model forums I am posing a new question on the FVP-5000T forum to see what people think . So guess chapter 2 will be on that site.
 
To answer some of my own questions, I looked at "The Durrells S3E8" recorded from ITV3+1 last March.

The original has subtitles that start playing before any dialogue at all, and are subsequently completely and even more out of sync.

/df said:
...(In a CF set-up) does it matter whether the recording has been decrypted?
Click to expand...
No, the decrypted version is just as bad.
...(In a multi-Humax set-up) does the same problem appear when the recording is viewed using DLNA?
Click to expand...
No, because subtitles aren't available in this case.
...Does remuxing a problem recording (eg using latest ffmpeg on box, or some other tool on a networked PC) have any effect?
Click to expand...
The media file has 4 streams (video, audio, audio description, subtitles). I couldn't immediately get ffmpeg to deal with the audio description stream. This command line
Code: 
ffmpeg -hide_banner -nostats -i test.ts -map 0:0 -map 0:1 -map 0:3 -c copy -mpegts_m2ts_mode true -mpegts_flags system_b -mpegts_service_type digital_tv out.ts
followed by re-creating the sidecar files gave a playable recording (with no audio description) where the subtitles started in sync but disappointingly lost sync in the scene after the title sequence. The promisingly named option fix_sub_duration applied to the input file made no difference. So that's a "Bah!", then. Maybe some other muxing tool would work better: tsMuxeR? (now open-sourced).
 
If you have a Firestick 4k you can resolve the problem by watching via the Firestick as DLNA. (No need to decrypt)

Install 'Archos Video Player' (which is free) on the Firestick and set the default player within Archos to 'MX Player' (also free). Also set within MX Player to always use SW decoder because if you use HW decoder it will just freeze. (Use the 'Legacy Mode' within Archos, you will see what I mean if you decide to try this route)

I have been using the above method for yonks and the subs do not go out of sync and you do not lose ffwd/rw functions.
 
Ezra Pound said:
I think subtitles users fall into one of two groups:-

1) people with a hearing disorder or a desire to make no noise for some reason
2) people who only use subtitles in order to retrieve specific blocks of lost speech
Click to expand...

I can add a third group (which includes myself)....

3) people who sometimes struggle to follow and retain complex plots unless they can read it rather than just hear it.
 
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