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UHD PVRs do they exist?

R

rapple

New Member
Having had a couple of Fox T2s for a long time but recently converted to 4K TV with all the current bells and whistles. I've started looking around to supplement the BluRay/Netflix/Prime sources of audio/video bliss.

Particularly interested in BBC content for nature programmes but discovered that iplayer app on TV doesn't cache our ID/password and anyway was looking for something that would allow me to keep the recording a bit longer than these tend to stay in catch up.

So, started looking for 4K PVRs. The few I've found all state they do HD recording but are extremely non-specific about whether they do UHD recording. Aura included. I'm assuming that they don't and this is related to content protection of nice UHD stuff or the fact that broadcasts just aren't around, but detail as to why is low.

So, thought I'd ask a bunch of folk that are far more knowledgeable than I and if I'm wrong, great. Presumably there'll not be anything that can be customised like the T2 but even a large capacity PVR with UHD would be good.
 
rapple said:
the fact that broadcasts just aren't around, but detail as to why is low
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Because they take huge amounts of bandwidth, and there isn't any available on terrestrial, and not at a price anyone's willing to pay on satellite.
 
Thanks guys.

My understanding was that the BBC had done some test broadcasts and that these were essentially the same as those available currently through the iplayer but this could just be me misunderstanding something I read late at night.

Appreciate it's future stuff as far as terrestrial is concerned but always hoping it's not too far away.

Anyway, got a response from Humax just now. Apparently the Aura is capable of recording UHD broadcasts as it stands, just that there aren't any for it to work on. Presumably they don't mention this in ads/docs to avoid people becoming misled.

Suspect use of a DIY solution will be more flexible when they arrive. Plex's PVR function is getting better and as I now use that to organise my digitised back catalogue of vids/discs and music that may provide an option. Also skimmed the homebrew thread and there's more software out to handle capture cards than the last time I dabbled with mythtv (before HD came along). It's just nice sometimes to buy a box and use it though!
 
rapple said:
Appreciate it's future stuff as far as terrestrial is concerned but always hoping it's not too far away.
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I don't think there is much future for terrestrial broadcast. Even HD is under pressure as they sell off bandwidth to the mobile phone operators.
And people's habits are changing, particularly as a generational thing.
I don't think terrestrial is going to disappear soon, but I doubt there will be any significant improvement in quality given the limited bandwidth - advertisers want quantity.

So this:
Black Hole said:
UHD delivery will be by fibre or 5G - something for the telecos to get their investment back with.
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I hope broadcast is around for a while. Yep, I'm an old git and I'll embrace other delivery methods if they are practical.
However, I live in an area that maxes out copper links at 37Mb and EE is the only phone anyone can use inside the house on a day when the weather is good. Outside usually the best signal is 3/5 bars, normally 1-2 and no 4G (and we're only 8 miles from a City in one direction and 18 from GCHQ in another). We can just get 4K streaming to work over landline, hence Netflix experience but if there were any teenagers in the house with us...
Fortunately for us we will get Fibre this year courtesy of Gigaclear but many people in rural areas have similar connectivity so broadcast still has a role if it can hit the 4K heights.
When does digital poverty become an election issue I wonder? :)
 
rapple said:
However, I live in an area that maxes out copper links at 37Mb
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Ours is FTTC and only runs to about 30 and we have no problem with Netflix 4k - they recommend 25.
(Black Hole's is about 3 I think, so he has every right to complain.)

rapple said:
When does digital poverty become an election issue I wonder? :)
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That's an interesting one actually. Using the word poverty when the 4k Netflix subscription is about £12 a month seems wrong somehow. 🤔
 
MikeSh said:
That's an interesting one actually. Using the word poverty when the 4k Netflix subscription is about £12 a month seems wrong somehow. 🤔
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I'm talking 'bout the link, not the service that runs over it. Isn't there some gov't initiative in place for us all to have digital equality?

Anyways, I've listened to enough hyped carp from woliticians over the last 3 or 4 years and tuns of me too grievances off social remedia about, well almost everything so I'm sure I've a right to say something. 😵 However we diverge from the topic slightly...

As some mobile operator used to say the future could be bright for UHD over air, but I agree it's all about whether the other mechanisms deliver and get there first.
As a separate thought, not being radio wave educated, what's the finite capacity of delivery by mobile networks versus delivery over fibre? Presumably we can install more fibre capacity than we can ever have through mobile networks?
 
rapple said:
what's the finite capacity of delivery by mobile networks versus delivery over fibre?
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Hard to say - there are some very clever compression algorithms and they are getting better all the time. But there must come a limit.
In theory I imagine it's down to the frequency of the carrier times the number of frequencies you can use (depends how close you can run them and what ranges are available).

rapple said:
Presumably we can install more fibre capacity than we can ever have through mobile networks?
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Almost certainly. Unlike radio if you need more capacity you just keep adding parallel fibre cores, each of which can use the same frequencies as each other. The limit is just cost and the size of the hole through the ground* if you have a zillion cores.

( * If everyone worked remotely then in London they could put the redundant underground railway tunnels to good use like that :) )
 
rapple said:
I'm talking 'bout the link, not the service that runs over it. Isn't there some gov't initiative in place for us all to have digital equality?
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That sounds much to far to the left for the current government. Equality generally involves a race to the bottom.
 
MikeSh said:
if you need more capacity you just keep adding parallel fibre cores, each of which can use the same frequencies as each other.
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You don't need to add more fibre cores to increase capacity as fibre has virtually limitless bandwidth anyway even using a single colour (frequency) of light, this can be further extended by using wave division mulitplexing, I.e. multiple colours (frequencies) of light in the same fibre
 
Black Hole said:
Yup. Dunno who manages 37Mbps over copper unless they live next door to the exchange, it would have to be fibre to the street cabinet and then just the last few yards over copper.
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I get 327.75Mbps down and 49.95Mbps up over copper. This is using G.Fast, about 110m from the cabinet. Underground ducted phone cabling installed in 1987 when the housing estate was built. The downstream is hitting the G.Fast modulation limit, it could go faster if given more of the bandwidth (G.Fast is half duplex and the TX/RX split is very flexible, at least in the specs). The upstream is very close to the G.Fast modulation limit. The line could probably go faster with the gigabit G.Fast modulation schemes that haven't been rolled out in the UK (and may never be due to the push for full fibre).

When I was on VDSL I got 80/20 and the router stats told me that was capped and if the caps were lifted I could get the VDSL modulation limits, which I think are 115/35 (I could be mis-remembering that).

OK so 110m from the cabinet is a good position to be in. But it's much further away than the "last few yards over copper" you stated.
 
Having checked, the Profile 17a (which we use in the UK) VDSL2 modulation rate limits are 150/50. Why we always cap that to 80/20 I have no idea, given that G.Fast is now available in some areas it makes no sense to retain the 80/20 caps on VDSL2.
 
Scrat said:
Talk about shit hitting the fan...
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I spent many years on crappy 3mbps down 900kbps up ADSL2, with scratchy noises on the phone due to a line fault that meant the broadband dropped and resynced several times a day or even several times an hour if it was raining. Largely due to 4 miles of cable in bordeline fenland to the Waterbeach exchange.

I was hugely relieved when the FTTC cabinet went in and I got VDSL synced at 80/20. But then after only 2 years of that they went and upgraded the cabinet (and most of the village) to G.Fast as a late part of the G.Fast trials. On top of that I could now get Cambridge Fibre to install fibre to the premises (my neighbours have it), I think they are offering close to gigabit speed. Having suffered for years with terrible ADSL2, my cup truly runneth over with good broadband options now.
 
Owen Smith said:
I think they are offering close to gigabit speed.
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I struggle to think of anything which might benefit from that in a domestic situation, other than to win a "mine's bigger than yours" argument.

Owen Smith said:
I spent many years on crappy 3mbps down 900kbps up ADSL2, with scratchy noises on the phone due to a line fault that meant the broadband dropped and resynced several times a day or even several times an hour if it was raining.
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That's me, even though I'm "only" 1.2km. There are fibre cabinets on the adjacent newer-built estate (as I have discovered on my Covid-mandated but thoroughly resented walks), but no sign nearer. As said before, the only current alternatives are wireless or Virgin cable, and I suspect this locality is not high up the priority list because all the neighbours are on Sky or Virgin.
 
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