'Unable to track...' short programmes on Talking Pictures

lancer

New Member
Re-tuned last week and picked up Talking Pictures.

I like the look of some of the old 'shorts' on aspects of our recent history...some only 10 min's.

I have been able to record some, but it randomly failed to record others, usually of the 10 minute variety - but not exclusively (also failed to track a 25 minute one).

Now, it seems not to record any of the ones I'm setting, with the usual message 'Unable to track...etc.

It's only doing it on Talking Pictures. Any thoughts on what's going on with recordings for this channel 81?
 

MymsMan

Ad detector
Does Talking Pictures support Accurate recording or does it require timed recordings?

Some of the minor channels don't transmit accurate recording info
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
I've been recording a series (1 hour episodes) recently from TP using ar and haven't had any problems.
So the issue is probably just sloppy programming by the broadcaster. You could try setting them as timed rather than ar - how may depend on whether you have custom firmware.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
Does Talking Pictures support Accurate recording or does it require timed recordings?

Some of the minor channels don't transmit accurate recording info
Not actually relevant to lancer but if a channel does not 'transmit' 'Accurate Recording', means that the recorder should appear to treat the 'Accurate Recording' as the schedule times.
With 'Accurate Recording' the broadcaster will update the start time defined in the EIT p/f dynamically; and the recorder will constantly monitor the EIT p/f from one of the muxes (in Humax's freeview and youview case not always the most appropriate mux [which is why you get more issues with Humax when more than 1 transmitter is tuned in]!).
A freeview recorder cannot tell the difference between a channel that uses 'Accurate Recording' and one that does not. They are just looking at the EIT /f and that by default this is identical to the 7 day schedule guide.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
in Humax's freeview and youview case not always the most appropriate mux [which is why you get more issues with Humax when more than 1 transmitter is tuned in]!.
Oops! That may not apply to the later softwares for Humax FVPs
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
I have been having intermittent problems series-recording Star Trek Voyager on Horror (with AR). The symptoms do not match a "failed to track" event - there appears to have been no attempt to record (on the occasions that it doesn't) at all - despite the events schedule showing a match in the EPG. There is plenty of room on the HDD.

And yet, another machine set to record simultaneously (HD-FOX, also using AR) did record the same episode.

I don't know how to account for this, but clearly it is not the fault of the broadcaster.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
The symptoms do not match a "failed to track" event - there appears to have been no attempt to record (on the occasions that it doesn't) at all - despite the events schedule showing a match in the EPG.
Because 'The symptoms do not match a "failed to track" event' then that is not a good fit for lancer's issue.
 
OP
L

lancer

New Member
Thanks for the comments thus far. It's still at it today...and it's completely random. It will record one ok, then not another. And all only on TP.

As observed, I don't think AR is relevant to this because normally when a channel has no AR support you just get the programme recorded at the exact scheduled stop/start time.

'Unable to track...' usually means that it sets up to record but then fails to pick up the instance of the programme being broadcast at all, so does nothing - doesn't it?!
 

MikeSh

Well-Known Member
so does nothing - doesn't it?!
Yes. I think it waits a couple of hours after the expected start and then gives up and sets the 'no track' flag.
Sounds like they (TP) aren't setting the correct flags/crids for these programmes, so the box doesn't know when they are actually broadcast. If you recorded the programmes ahead and after these you'd probably find these shorts appended or prepended to those.
If you really want them you'll have to either do that or set timed recordings without ar.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
'Unable to track...' usually means that it sets up to record but then fails to pick up the instance of the programme being broadcast at all, so does nothing - doesn't it?!
Yes. And the usual cause is that the Fox (or 2000t/1800T) is tuned to more than 1 transmitter, and a programme from the other tramsmitter was either being watched or recorded.
But Talking Pictures is on ARQ B and that mux (along with ARQ A and SDN) normally records OK when there are a mix of 2 transmitters tuned in even when a programme from another transmitter is being watched or recorded.

Are you in range of more than 1 transmitter and is one of them a relay?
Which transmitters are near you?
 

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
If you are using custom firmware, you can choose to record everything from Talking Pictures with padding (while everything else remains AR).
 

EEPhil

Number 28
If you know the problem is with Talking Pictures, contact them. They will probably look into it . I reported a problem with the sound cutting off about 1s before the breaks, they dealt with it - eventually. I don't use AR, and I have had no problems recording short programmes on TPTV - I just get lots of crud either side because of the padding. :)
 
OP
L

lancer

New Member
Yes. And the usual cause is that the Fox (or 2000t/1800T) is tuned to more than 1 transmitter, and a programme from the other tramsmitter was either being watched or recorded.
But Talking Pictures is on ARQ B and that mux (along with ARQ A and SDN) normally records OK when there are a mix of 2 transmitters tuned in even when a programme from another transmitter is being watched or recorded.

Are you in range of more than 1 transmitter and is one of them a relay?
Which transmitters are near you?
Sudbury is my transmitter.

I'm not tuned to more than one as far as I can see. Also, it fails to record TPTV programmes when there is nothing else being recorded or watched on any channel....so don't think that's the cause in any event.
 

MartinLiddle

Super Moderator
Staff member
Sudbury is my transmitter.

I'm not tuned to more than one as far as I can see.
Just to convince us, could you press Menu button on remote then Settings>System>Signal detection then press the right arrow (to the right of the OK button) and you will see a list of the Multiplex channel numbers; please post the numbers here
 

lashers

New Member
I am also on Sudbury and picked up Talking Pictures courtesy of tunefix-update. I immediately went through the EPG and scheduled a number of programmes including some of the shorts that lancer mentioned. Going back a few days later I similarly noticed that a number of them had failed to track; coincidentally an instance was happening at the time and although the programme appeared in the on-box schedule no timer icon was showing in the on-box EPG. I cancelled and rescheduled all my future Talking Pictures recordings and have not had a failed recording since.
 

prpr

Well-Known Member
I guess you might have had RS scheduling the old mux. rather than the new one if you didn't give it time to update to the server.
Try it again now.
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
I am also on Sudbury and picked up Talking Pictures courtesy of tunefix-update. I immediately went through the EPG and scheduled a number of programmes including some of the shorts that lancer mentioned. Going back a few days later I similarly noticed that a number of them had failed to track; coincidentally an instance was happening at the time and although the programme appeared in the on-box schedule no timer icon was showing in the on-box EPG. I cancelled and rescheduled all my future Talking Pictures recordings and have not had a failed recording since.
On Friday evening I set all the week's Talking Pictures' coming shorts from Sudbury on a couple of HDR-FOX T2s (that have different software releases). All have recorded so far.
Talking Pictures are not currently using any CRIDs. I wonder if they did use to but then for some reason they have been dropped, also impacting the underlying event id and therefore recordings are failing.

I don't think I've ever wanted to record from that channel but if I did I'd use padding and not Accurate Recording, which is what BH suggested to do earlier. With C/f its not really a work around, more like the best way of setting it up any way using multi-mode as the channel is unlikely to use Accurate Recording.
 
OP
L

lancer

New Member
I am also on Sudbury and picked up Talking Pictures courtesy of tunefix-update. I immediately went through the EPG and scheduled a number of programmes including some of the shorts that lancer mentioned. Going back a few days later I similarly noticed that a number of them had failed to track; coincidentally an instance was happening at the time and although the programme appeared in the on-box schedule no timer icon was showing in the on-box EPG. I cancelled and rescheduled all my future Talking Pictures recordings and have not had a failed recording since.
Funnily enough, I haven't had an instance of a recording failing to track this week after all the problems last week.

Looks like it might have been an issue with TPTV, or elsewhere, that's now been resolved.
 

EEPhil

Number 28
... Going back a few days later I similarly noticed that a number of them had failed to track; coincidentally an instance was happening at the time and although the programme appeared in the on-box schedule no timer icon was showing in the on-box EPG. I cancelled and rescheduled all my future Talking Pictures recordings and have not had a failed recording since.
Although I don't use AR, this has just reminded me of something I noticed a few days ago. I had scheduled some recordings from TPTV and the EPG showed the orange symbol indicating a scheduled one-off recording (at least that's what shows up on a 2000T). A day or so later, I did the same again - not realising that the orange symbol had vanished from all the TPTV scheduled recordings. However, when I tried to set the schedule, the Humax complained about conflicting recordings. These turned out to be the "missing" TPTV items. The Humax gave me the option of cancelling the original schedule and replacing with the new recording (the new one is the same as the old one, remember!). The orange symbol reappeared and the recordings completed successfully. I wonder if this observation is linked to the failing to track problem?
 
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