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Using RS/RTS for linked programs - still needs a restart ?

peterworks

peterworks

Ye Olde Bowler
More for awareness than anything else.
I stated in another thread (https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/wrong-crid-for-shetland.8547/page-2#post-120645) that linked program scheduling was not working for me.
I only use RS for scheduling programs and I have found that, with linked programs, RTS does not schedule the second part of the program. The process I used was as follows:
I scheduled the program in RS. When I checked WebIF I found that only the first part has been scheduled.
Looking at RS the same had occurred. This is where I 'assumed' it had not worked.

However I have now found that if I then restart the Humax the second part appears in the schedule and, sometimes, any further showings of the program. Returning to RS I found that it too showed this too.
 
I think that when recording starts the humax checks the epg for unscheduled episodes of the series/linked programme and adds them to the schedule so you shouldn't need a reboot, just good nerves that it will work correctly. Test on an unimportant programme first !

If the broadcaster has used the same episode crids for the repeat they should be skipped as already recorded. However I have multiple copies of gravity I haven't investigated but suspect the split point differs and different crids were allocated
 
Have set up a test - will see what happens (might have to put a question mark at the end of the thread title !)
 
I scheduled White House Down (ITV2 tonight, with an FYI Daily split) using the SUI and both elements showed the clock icon.

I checked Guide >> Schedule (yellow) >> White House Down >> (right) and both elements were listed. I checked WebIF >> Schedule and both elements were listed.

I then deleted the entry.

I scheduled White House Down using WebIF + RTS, then went to WebIF >> Schedule, and only the first element was listed. However, on Guide >> Schedule, both elements were listed, and then on WebIF >> Schedule (when refreshed) both elements were listed.

I then deleted the entry.

I scheduled White House Down using WebIF + RTS, then went to WebIF >> Schedule, and only the first element was listed. Then I refreshed the page, and both elements were listed.

I suggest you are panicking unnecessarily, and just need to give the system a few moments to catch up.
 
MymsMan said:
If the broadcaster has used the same episode crids for the repeat they should be skipped as already recorded.
Click to expand...
In terms of how series and split programmes are defined on freeview they are not the same thing.
A split programme has the same CRID (including an IMI extension) for all parts of a single broadcast of a programme. If the series rule applied here then the second part of a freeview split programme would never get recorded.

The reasons that split repeats using the same CRID aren't usually recorded is that there is usually a 3 hour gap between the end of the first broadcast and the start of the repeat. It is the 3 hour gap for a freeview defined split programme that triggers it as being treated as a repeat and not yet another part of the same split programme.
If more than 3 hours has passed then the broadcaster can use the same CRID for the repeat, including the Instance Metadata Identifier extension, without the box recording the repeat. It is the 3 hour gap that stops another split being recorded.

For split programmes Channel 5 were using the same IMI extensions, (and the rest of the CRID), for the simultaneously broadcast HD and SD versions for a week when Channel 5 HD was first launched on freeview. This resulted in multiple recordings of the second part as there wasn't a gap of at least 3 hours.

Unfortunately ITV2 have recently been confusing the situation by setting up some two part programmes not as a split programme but as series with 2 episodes instead even though the break between has been only 5 or 10 minutes.
 
Luke said:
Unfortunately ITV2 have recently been confusing the situation by setting up some two part programmes not as a split programme but as series with 2 episodes instead even though the break between has been only 5 or 10 minutes.
Click to expand...
The ones I've played with are recognised as both split and series (even though they do not appear to be in a series), so I query your use of "instead".
 
The ones I've played with are recognised as both split and series (even though they do not appear to be in a series), so I query your use of "instead".
Click to expand...

ITV4 does this quite regularly with films

upload_2018-3-8_23-11-45.png
 
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peterworks said:
I scheduled the program in RS. When I checked WebIF I found that only the first part has been scheduled.
Click to expand...
Was it the programme or the series that you scheduled?

Black Hole said:
The ones I've played with are recognised as both split and series (even though they do not appear to be in a series), so I query your use of "instead".
Click to expand...
Just checked and you are correct in that ITV2 are including split programmes within a series now. The series appear to include the first broadcast and the repeats. Not exactly a 'series' in the normal uses of the word.

The freeview 'series' and 'split' still have their distinct rules, and the rules do still include what I described.

___
Looking at today's The Hangover Part 3' I find interesting. ITV have included the repeat as part of the same freeview series. That was within the definitions of d-book 7 (the latest one easily available to all) . It is some thing that only Channel 5 use to do and fortunately, on the whole, the HDR-FOX T2 takes account of that happening.

___
Also, using the Humax UI to set 'The Hangover Part 3' to record as a programme and not a series results in the schedule including all parts of both broadcasts. That is a deviation from d-book 7.
 
Thankyou BlackHole for your comprehensive test. However it is RS that I am concerned with.
I set up a test as stated earlier and the second part did not record.
I used a scenario whereby I am away for a period of time as follows:
1) Set up a linked recording on RS which only had the 'Record Programme' option (The Quest on the Sony Movie channel).
2) Turned on the Humax for 10 minutes - this, in my scenario, is where a reminder is set for 10 minutes at lunch time.
3) Check on both RS and WebIF to ensure the programme was scheduled. It was but only the first part.
4) Turn off the Humax after 10 minutes.
5) Leave everything alone.
6) At the scheduled time the first part recorded (as in the red light came on on the Humax and it was in MyVideo this morning).
7) Waited for the second part to start recording but no red light and no recording (sorry MymsMan but your thought that it should schedule the second part did not happen).

As I said in my opening post this is more for awareness and I suspect, though haven't proven, that if the Humax was actually brought out of standby then the second part could well be scheduled/recorded.
If, however, this is worth persuing then perhaps someone in a position to follow the above process could prove (or disprove !) my findings.
 
There is a similar problems on the web-if at least when using RTS. It appears to be different for ITV2 split only programmes and SMC split only programmes (with ITV2 faring better), and so far can also sometimes vary according to whether it is the first part or the second part that is used for the booked. I'll try and get some time this evening to be a bit methodical about it and post back findings or results.
 
To not dive in at the deep end I started off by using the Web-if instead of RS and with RTS off.
The attached snap shot is of 8 recordings set via the web-IF for what initial appear to be split programmes. For each channel 2 recordings were requested - one via the 'record programme' options for the first part of the film and the other for the second part of the film.
Looking at the schedule's pending actions the non-Sony rows look fine. The 4 Sony rows don't. The Sony rows are all missing the 'split' icon, but for two different reasons.

The reason that the True Movies schedule is not as expected is that their CRIDs are incorrect. They have forgotten to specify that it is a split programme. The CDID is missing the IMI extension. Humax feeview recorders will need to have both parts separately set to record.

The Sony Movie Channel programmes do have CRIDs with an IMI extension but the schedule's pending actions pane does not show that as split. Could what is triggering the lack of a split icon also be causing the recording issues for Sony Movie Channel? And what is causing this?
The only difference that I can see between Sony Move Channel split programmes and 5Spike (and the rest of the 5 family) is that Sony's IMI are #nn while all the other channels have them as #n. C/F REGEX issue?
upload_2018-3-9_19-47-0.png
 

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peterworks said:
I updated to 1.4.2-14 and retested overnight - unfortunately same result (only the first part recorded)
Click to expand...
Which programme and channel was it?
Do you have RTS swithed on or off? From your 1st post I presume 'On'.
Did you select the 1st part or the 2nd part when scheduling the programme?
 
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Program was Contract To Kill on Sony Movie Channel (and the link icon was there)
Log shows:
10/03/2018 03:58:27 System booted (Scheduled event) - my overnight 1 hour reminder to do any housekeeping and any decryption, etc
10/03/2018 02:35:06 Recorded: /Contract To Kill (61 minutes - Sony Movie Ch)
10/03/2018 01:36:13 Updated disk contents.
10/03/2018 01:31:28 System booted (Scheduled event).

I was an early adopter of RTS and use it all the time
Selected the 1st part of the programme
 
af123 said:
and fixed in webif 1.4.2-14
Click to expand...
Thanks that is now looking as expected with the split icon against the SMC programmes, just like programmes from other channels, and when the schedule is updated the schedule on the Humax UI now looks identical to if the programmes were set via the Humax UI.
I've retried all 6 programmes with and without RTS to compare the results on the Humax UI and also the webif schedule. Oddly the other programme of the pair takes a bit of time to appear, with selecting the first one for the booking having its partner slot appearing the fastest.


peterworks said:
Program was Contract To Kill on Sony Movie Channel (and the link icon was there)
Log shows:
10/03/2018 03:58:27 System booted (Scheduled event) - my overnight 1 hour reminder to do any housekeeping and any decryption, etc
10/03/2018 02:35:06 Recorded: /Contract To Kill (61 minutes - Sony Movie Ch)
10/03/2018 01:36:13 Updated disk contents.
10/03/2018 01:31:28 System booted (Scheduled event).

I was an early adopter of RTS and use it all the time
Selected the 1st part of the programme
Click to expand...
I'm now attempting exactly the same as you have described, but using Sony Movie Ch's film at 13:25.
It's CRID is very similar to Contrcat to Kill (whose CRID was www.moviemix.co.uk/X3416#01).

I am using 2 HDR-FOX T2s.
1) With both of them in fully stand-by and via the RS I selected the 1st part on one HDR-FOX T2 for recording and on the other HDR-FOX T2 I selected the second part.
2) When I rebooted them I got called away ...
3) ... and returning 6 minutes later and displaying the web-if schedules they were both showing both parts. I.e. different from 3) in your post #9. At that point the RS for both of the HDR-FOX T2s were still showing just 1 part each. I was using F5 to refresh the RS, or just switching from one HDR-FOX T2 to the other to refresh. The one where I'd selected the 1st part started showing the second part as being included just as time was up.
4) I tuned then off about 10 minutes after the start of the reboot, (which was 25 minutes before the programme was due to start). It may have been approaching eleven minutes.
5) Left them in standby

It all looks fine to me, but I'll leave them both in standby to see what really happens.

One possible difference between my setup and yours is that for Sony Movie Ch I use padding, not AR, but I can't see that would make any difference.
 
peterworks said:
I updated to 1.4.2-14 and retested overnight - unfortunately same result (only the first part recorded)
Click to expand...
As the second part of my film from Sony Movie Ch started 20 minutes ago I've brought the two HDR-FOX T2s out of standby. Both had recorded the first part and started recording at the appropriate padded time.

In other words both my RS set Sony Movie Ch splits worked fine without any extra reboots.
 
Thanks Luke but your 2) above is the crux of the matter. In my case the box is never turned on - it is only ever either off or in standby.
I set the program in RS. The box goes from off to standby with my scheduled reminder and at this point the schedule (1st part only) is uploaded to the boxes schedule. It then goes to off at the end time of the reminder.
When the recording is due to start the box goes from off to standby and records the 1st part.
At no time is the box ever fully on.
As I said in my first post, once the 1st part is in the boxes schedule, a boot (ie not in standby but fully on) updates the schedule correctly.

I think the easiest way to mimic this is to presume your are not at home and therefore have no access to the box...
 
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Luke - an error in the above - when the scheduled reminder comes on then, of course, the box is on. I am just wondering if the 10 minutes is long enough.
I will test again tomorrow with the reminder set to 60 minutes.
 
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