2000t stuck in reboot loop

P

Peter Christy

Member
Had this machine for a number of years, running without issue. A few weeks back, it locked up a couple of times - had to pull the power to get it going again. Two days ago, it did the same, but on re-powering, it is stuck in a reboot loop. The initial screen comes up, then goes away and the TV reports "No device connected", then the initial screen comes up again, goes away, and so on ad infinitum.

Has anyone else had this? Any clues as to the cause or a fix? It looks pretty terminal, which is a nuisance as there are some HD recordings on the HDD that I've neither backed up nor seen yet!

--
Pete
 
What worked for me on a different model (5000T) was to remove the aerial - other people say remove the network connecter also - try and boot. If it boots, chances are the disk has gone read only. You might be able to save files, but you'd have to format the disk to restore write access. If that doesn't work, try opening the case and disconnect the hard drive. Try booting. If that works you probably need a new disk. If it doesn't your 2000T is most likely deceased!
 
EEPhil said:
What worked for me on a different model (5000T) was to remove the aerial - other people say remove the network connecter also - try and boot.
Click to expand...
My advice would be to disconnect the hard drive and see if it boots.
If it boots, chances are the disk has gone read only. You might be able to save files, but you'd have to format the disk to restore write access.
Click to expand...
IF it is a file system issue then it could be recovered by connecting it to a computer using Linux and using the file system repair tools.
 
Thanks for the advice, folks. I did wonder if it was a disk problem, so I tried substituting an un-formatted 500 GB drive, hoping it would come up and ask me to format it, but it just stayed stuck in the loop. I'll have another look in the morning - try it with no disk, and see what happens.

P.S. I do run Linux and have gparted, so repairing the file system is possible, but I thought Humax had their own weird file system? Or am I remembering incorrectly?

Cheers,

--
Pete
 
Peter Christy said:
I thought Humax had their own weird file system? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
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It very much depends which particular model you are talking about. You can't just say "Humax have a weird file system". Sometimes it's true, sometimes it isn't.
 
Peter Christy said:
P.S. I do run Linux and have gparted, so repairing the file system is possible, but I thought Humax had their own weird file system? Or am I remembering incorrectly?
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The PVR-8000T (initially 40GB) was launched in 2003 and had a file system that was not Linux based, but I think was also used by another manufacturer, so not unique.

The PVR-9000T family, started with the PVR-9200T (initially 160GB) was launched in 2005, and also wasn't Linux based. My understanding was that the file system was bought in. In 2008, with the drawn out progression to having a UK HD broadcast DTT standard, Humax released a couple of other models in the 9000T series.

In 2010 saw Humax releasing both the HD-FOX T2 and the HDR-FOX T2 with a Linux based file system.

The HDR-2000T was brought to market as a budget version of the HDR-FOX T2. The HDR-2000T uses more modern components and is therefore faster, and (probably) due to it having a more recent version of Linux, out of the box it can handle the NTFS file system via USB.

Is this the HDR-2000T that you bought in 2013?
 
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Yes, that's right! Well remembered! :)

It has been working well for 10 years, so I guess I can't really complain! I was expecting the issue to be a disk drive failure, as its the only moving part. Electronic failures are rare, and tend to happen fairly early in the life of a device. However, I've just been trying it with no external connections, other than a monitor, and also with the disk drive disconnected. Its still stuck in a boot-loop, so I guess its terminal.

My recollection is that all the files on the drive are encrypted, and get decrypted by the hardware when read. That almost certainly means that the recordings, while intact, cannot be extracted by a computer. I'm not even sure whether swapping the drive into another 2000t would work, as I suspect the decryption key is unique to the specific hardware.

If this isn't the case, any advice on recovery would be gratefully received, but I'm prepared for the worst!

My elderly 9200T still works, though the front panel display gave up the ghost some time ago. Looks like time to build a Raspberry Pi + Kodi setup...
 
Putting the drive from the failed 2000T into another 2000T won't work because of the encryption, as you correctly remembered. Noone (I tried but failed, and nobody else has reported otherwise) discovered the decryption key layout for this and later models, so an external decryption program will not work either. Unless you can get the original 2000T to boot, I'd say your chance of recording recovery is somewhere between slim and non-existant. Unless someone knows better!
 
Thanks for confirming my recollection!

All may not be completely lost yet. When powering it up, I couldn't hear the drive spinning up. I know its on shock mounts, but I would expect to be able to hear something. So, I've just done a check of the power supply to the disk, and the 12v supply seems to be missing! I'm not sure what else relies on 12v, but that certainly doesn't sound right. (Going back to my basic training from over 40 years ago - always check the power supplies first! ;) )

Looking at the board, most if it is surface mount - difficult to repair, and without a circuit diagram, impossible to figure out what is what. However, there are three electrolytic capacitors scattered around the board (fault finding tip No.2 - If the power supply is down, check the electrolytics first!). I just happen to have a packet of capacitors of the right capacity and voltage, so I will try replacing them.

Clutching at straws, but you never know....!

May have to wait until after the week-end though, due to family committments.

UPDATE:

Nope! Wasn't the electrolytics.

Without a circuit diagram its now impossible to take it any further. I've traced the 12v supply back to what appears to be a transistor (FET?) switch, which presumably powers the disk up when needed. I can't believe it would be running all the time. So something isn't switching the 12v on. I doubt if there's anything else on the board that needs 12v. Everything else looks like logic circuitry, so it must be a failure in one of the chips somewhere.

Looks like another item for the landfill.....
 
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Yes, its 12v coming in from the power unit, and that's present and correct.However, most of the computer stuff is likely to be 5v or less (3.3v not uncommon). There will be step downs in there somewhere. 5v is present at the disk power socket, but no 12v. I'm guessing that the disk is powered down when the unit is in standby. Its probably not powering up because it never finishes booting - or really ever gets started. It gets as far as the very 1st Humax UKTFAC screen, and the reboots. The 12v is presumably for the disk motor, and the 5v for the logic. However, I would have thought the drive itself would be responsible for controlling the disk motor. Not an area I've ever explored, so this is a lot of guesswork.

In any event, without a lot more detailed info, I can't see me being able to fix the motherboard. Too much surface mount stuff! Might be able to replace the odd power transistor, if I knew which was doing what, but without a very detailed service manual, its scrabbling around in the dark.
 
A variation of the above..
Try using portable external USB drive on either port. If it works ok then you could replace the internal desktop drive (3.5) with a laptop drive (2.5). Standard laptop drives only require 5V. You'll be able to power that drive via the USB 5V line either internally by the USB socket solder point or a USB cable on the USB port feeding back into the unit. But if the unit is on the way out, not sure how long it'll hold up even with a laptop drive.
(Don't forget to try another 12V power plug first.)
 
Peter Christy said:
Had this machine for a number of years, running without issue. A few weeks back, it locked up a couple of times - had to pull the power to get it going again. Two days ago, it did the same, but on re-powering, it is stuck in a reboot loop. The initial screen comes up, then goes away and the TV reports "No device connected", then the initial screen comes up again, goes away, and so on ad infinitum.

Has anyone else had this? Any clues as to the cause or a fix?
Click to expand...
To me this sounds similar to a boot problem on the HDR-FOX T2 which was traced to a capacitor going out of spec. It is a long thread to read but a solution was found see https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/start-up-fails-when-hdd-connected.10164/
 
Thanks for all the suggestions, folks!

The more I look at it, the more convinced I become that the missing 12v is a symptom, not a cause. There is definitely 12v arriving from the power supply. The 12v to the disk appears to pass through a semiconductor switch (transistor) of some kind. The switch has 12v on one pin, but nothing coming out to the header. To save energy, the disk should be powered down when the device is in standby - hence the switch. I believe the 12v is missing because the boot process never completes to the stage where the drive gets switched on.

Nearly every component on the board is surface mount, making identification difficult without a full service manual - and even then replacement will be difficult. The only non-SM items were the aforementioned electrolytics, and even they were difficult to change. The board uses plated-through holes (usual for multi-layer boards), but the solder used is very high temperature. I have a very good temperature controlled iron, and even at max temp (480 degC) that was barely enough to soften it. Changing the electrolytics was quite a struggle!

I will have a look through that thread that Martin has pointed to, but even if it is a similar issue, tracing a faulty smd without a full circuit diagram and layout is likely impossible. Also, as Luke points out, it wouldn't boot even with the HDD disconnected.

The more I look at it, the more terminal it appears!

Thanks, everyone for your support and suggestions. If I find a fix, I will report back here. For the moment, unless I can find some detailed technical support, I'm putting it on the back burner.

Cheers,
 
Peter Christy said:
Had this machine for a number of years, running without issue. A few weeks back, it locked up a couple of times - had to pull the power to get it going again. Two days ago, it did the same, but on re-powering, it is stuck in a reboot loop. The initial screen comes up, then goes away and the TV reports "No device connected", then the initial screen comes up again, goes away, and so on ad infinitum.

Has anyone else had this? Any clues as to the cause or a fix? It looks pretty terminal, which is a nuisance as there are some HD recordings on the HDD that I've neither backed up nor seen yet!

--
Pete
Click to expand...
I have the same situation. I have found that if I can hold ‘off’ on the remote the Humax suddenly goes into red button off mode. Then when I turn it on again with the remote it works perfectly.

Has anyone any thoughts?
 
Tiddlesuk said:
I have the same situation. I have found that if I can hold ‘off’ on the remote the Humax suddenly goes into red button off mode. Then when I turn it on again with the remote it works perfectly.

Has anyone any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I seem to remember my 2000T would reboot if I held the on/off button on the box. Useful if the box froze and wouldn't respond to the remote. Not sure if that achieves anything more than removing the power.
 
Well, I gave it a try, but to no avail! I also tried by-passing what appeared to be the 12v switching transistor to the disk drive, so that the drive got its 12v. Still no joy. I also tried replacing the disk drive with an old (unformatted) 2.5" sata drive, again. it was still stuck in a loop. I know people have upgraded drives in these, so I assume that when you put a new drive in, it formats it for you - or asks you, or something. Nope. Still stuck in a boot loop.

I also tried cooling various components on the the motherboard with freezer spray, which once worked on a laptop for long enough to enable a rescue, but again, no joy. The landfill beckons!

In the meantime, I've built a Raspberry PI PVR, which does everything the Humax did but without the encryption hassles. Its just annoying that I can't salvage what is on the Humax disk....

BTW, Firefox won't let me log on to this website! It insists I enable cookies - which I have - but still won't play ball! Stuck in a loop, just like the Humax! Had to employ a different browser (Opera) to make this reply
 
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