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Accurate Recording AR misfiring

Discussion in 'HDR-FOX T2 Freeview Recorder' started by mihaid, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    I was not sure whether there was interest for this but here goes:

    Let's post here examples of TV programs recorded using AR which have missed either the beginning or end of the program.
    Channel/Program/Date/Time would suffice I think.

    And then let's bombard those channels into submission. It's only part of their obligations coming with Freeview membership.
    oijonesey likes this.
  2. Ezra Pound

    Ezra Pound Well-Known Member

    I was wondering if anybody with knowledge of the Humax code, knows if it is possible to monitor and log the AR start and stop 'Flags' sent by the broadcasters, If this was possible, users would have some proof that the start / stop flags (for Homeland etc.) were sent too early, too late or not at all
  3. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    It is likely possible, but the recording would need to be decrypted first. I did look at the possibility of adding bookmarks at the AR point in padded recordings once-over but didn't pursue it once I realised the required data tables were encrypted along with the rest of the data.
  4. Ezra Pound

    Ezra Pound Well-Known Member

    That's a shame, I suppose that redring logs does give start and end of recording times and you can't log an event that didn't happed at all, so we do have the only info. available anyway
    Here is an RR example of some programes people have been complaining about :-
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 21:46:21 2012: Recording start 47:'/mnt/hd2/My Video/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery___/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery____20121006_2146.nts'
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 22:46:11 2012: Recording end 47.
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 22:46:13 2012: Recording start 45:'/mnt/hd2/My Video/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery___/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery____20121006_2246.nts'
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 22:46:27 2012: Recording start 46:'/mnt/hd2/My Video/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery___/Arena_ The Beatles' Magical Mystery____20121006_2246(1).nts'
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 23:41:05 2012: Recording end 46.
    [RR] Sat Oct  6 23:41:16 2012: Recording end 45.
  5. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    Success. Even though last Sunday episode was fine I received this:

    Dear Viewer,

    Thank you for contacting Channel 4 Viewer Enquiries regarding HOMELAND.
    Channel Four is in the process of enabling the “triggers” in the broadcast stream on Freeview for C4HD, as part of a planned roll-out. We hope to have the technology installed and configured to put these in place by the end of next week (Week 22-26 Oct).

    Anyway, I think a bit of pressure heaped on the misbehaving channels might go a long way. Please report any other issues.
  6. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    ITV1 HD FA Cup on Sunday 4th did not record with something like: event could not be found. I have now found out that it had been postponed because of weather. Does anyone know whether ITV just broadcast something else. Here I was thinking I found a mistake when in fact they were correct.
  7. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    Anyone recording Midsomer murders on a series link? If yes, did your hummies try to record Rosemary and Thyme on 23 March which must have been wrongly given by ITV the same series ID. My hummy eventually failed to record it, could it be because ITV eventually sent a correct ID which did not match the wrong same code as Midsomer?
  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Very likely.
  9. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    which bit?
  10. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    CRID correction in the EPG data between scheduling and broadcast.

    The Humax would have looked for the next matching S-CRID when the recording of Midsomer Murders completed, found the erroneous match for Rosemary & Thyme and added it to the schedule. 15 mins before the expected broadcast start, it fires up and looks for the start mark which does not arrive because in the mean time the data has been corrected. The recording fails "unable to track" because the awaited start mark does not occur within the prescribed window.

    I don't know exactly what happens after that. I presume the Humax then looked for the next matching S-CRID to schedule, and possibly a matching P-CRID to try to pick up the failed recording in a repeat broadcast.

    If you had used auto-padding instead of AR, it would probably have recorded the Rosemary & Thyme.

    Do you have a daily EPG-refresh wake-up scheduled? Changes to the EPG data are supposed to correct the recording schedule if they are present during a wake-up prior to the actual recording taking place.
  11. rg001c7345

    rg001c7345 Member

    Just out of interest, is there a set time when the EPG changes are received and also, for how long does the Humax need to be awake for the changes to complete?

  12. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Although it had been queried since, I clearly remember it being definitively stated that the EPG takes 15 minutes for a complete cycle, and I therefore recommend a 20-minute wake up. See Things Every... section 4.

    The EPG appears to add another day's worth some time in the night, each night, but corrections might be applied at any time.
  13. MartinLiddle

    MartinLiddle Super Moderator Staff Member

    The figure that was quoted a few years ago was less than five minutes, see for instance http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1264301 post #16.
  14. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    If somebody knows how to flush the EPG cache, I will test it.
  15. af123

    af123 Administrator Staff Member

    It should be fairly easy to analyse a recording and look for the incidence of EIT frames.
    The EPG cache can be flushed from maintenance mode (it's a menu option).
  16. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    It certainly seemed to complete in about 5 minutes, but without a definitive specification I see no harm in erring on the cautious side.
  17. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    Which was of no interest to me.

    I don't, but the wrong CRID must have sat in the EPG for days on end IIRC and an early correction would have been picked up.

    The actual sequence was:
    recorded last MSMweeks ago
    the series entry just sat there
    then early last week it found the wrong CRID
  18. Black Hole

    Black Hole Theloniuos Abbot

    Oh, I see - Midsommer Murders is over then. The schedule item sits there for three months waiting for another match, and then is removed.

    Can you confirm the recording failed "unable to track"?
  19. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    Yes, confirmed.
  20. mihaid

    mihaid Member

    I have sent the following email:

    Dear ITV

    I have the Midsomer murders set to record as a series link on my Humax HDR T2 Fox recorder. You might imagine my surprise last week when I found out that you attached the wrong codes to Rosemary and Thyme on 23 March at 16.00, which made my recorder select it to record. May I remind you that under the Freeview license the broadcaster has to ensure that the programs are coded correctly. Under this same series recording I had Midsomer episodes which were repeats not new/original items which this series record was set up for.

    I would appreciate it if you could provide me with an answer.

    They replied today:

    Thank you for your email regarding your series link recordings.

    I’m sorry to hear of the problem you experienced at the weekend. Midsomer Murders was replaced on Saturday afternoon and the late programme change appears to have caused the issue. I will make our data team aware of the situation.

    Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

    Once again, thank you for taking the trouble to contact ITV.

    Kind regards


    I think that if more of us contacted any of the (mistakes)broadcasters we might just about bring them into compliance.