AR on a per-recording or per-service basis
- Thread starter Black Hole
- Start date
The break in transmission was weeks before I started using AR, I only found out it was due to planned maintanance later on. At that time I had padding set but as I was watching the programme go out I manually started the recording. Perhaps it was bad luck after many AR successes it failed the first time I set an early morning recording.
I really like the Humax and appreciate all the time and effort people have spent developing the modified firmware and package system. The only thing I prefer about the Toppy, and perhaps it's because I've spent so long with it, is it's vertical style EPG. Oh, think I'd have to choose Pollyanna
I really like the Humax and appreciate all the time and effort people have spent developing the modified firmware and package system. The only thing I prefer about the Toppy, and perhaps it's because I've spent so long with it, is it's vertical style EPG. Oh, think I'd have to choose Pollyanna
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Ooops!!!
My Weatherview benchmark has broken twice on AR - early hours of Christmas Day and early hours of Boxing Day "failed to track". I was alerted to it when I saw the Weartherview folder in place - I would have expected flatten to remove it - and when I investigated there were broken recordings shown on the SUI. I think I shall have to de-flatten that folder, I might not notice a run of broken recordings if a successful one then gets flattened and deletes the evidence.
Weatherview is on BBC1 very late (usually), and although it's not an important recording the fact that it is scheduled as a separate programme in the EPG and not as part of a news bulletin makes it a useful one to have as an on-demand weather forecast and/or a test probe. Being late means it is subject to any timing variations that may have accumulated through the day, and thus an ideal candidate for AR. Now I have set .noflatten I shall have a better monitor for how often it breaks.
The preliminary findings are clear though: even the BBC is unreliable with AR. AR is a means for the broadcaster to control when (or even if) your video recorder records. They might be lax with it, cock it up... or even deliberately prevent some content being recorded if they persuade/enforce universal AR. Do you really want to be seduced into using AR as your default?
My Weatherview benchmark has broken twice on AR - early hours of Christmas Day and early hours of Boxing Day "failed to track". I was alerted to it when I saw the Weartherview folder in place - I would have expected flatten to remove it - and when I investigated there were broken recordings shown on the SUI. I think I shall have to de-flatten that folder, I might not notice a run of broken recordings if a successful one then gets flattened and deletes the evidence.
Weatherview is on BBC1 very late (usually), and although it's not an important recording the fact that it is scheduled as a separate programme in the EPG and not as part of a news bulletin makes it a useful one to have as an on-demand weather forecast and/or a test probe. Being late means it is subject to any timing variations that may have accumulated through the day, and thus an ideal candidate for AR. Now I have set .noflatten I shall have a better monitor for how often it breaks.
The preliminary findings are clear though: even the BBC is unreliable with AR. AR is a means for the broadcaster to control when (or even if) your video recorder records. They might be lax with it, cock it up... or even deliberately prevent some content being recorded if they persuade/enforce universal AR. Do you really want to be seduced into using AR as your default?
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
That could be read two ways. Typo sorted, I can't sort out the AR.
Playout of BBC, Ch4, UKTV and loads of other channels is handled by a seperate company, Red Bee, and it's their equipment that puts the little hop at the begining of credit squeezes (too expensive to fix apparently). Although the BBC is ultimately responsible for it's own channels, I wonder if it's mistakes in the playout schedule, which is semi-automatic, that causes AR to fail. Could just be slackness as regards the schedule metadata and the BBC not too bothered about things such as accurate AR flags.
Before we accept that conclusion I think you need to convince us that your box is correctly tuned to a consistent set of channels from a single transmitter.
Wallace
Traveler 34122
Maybe for you, but I have made HUNDREDS of recordings on the BBC channels in previous months on my HDR and NOT A SINGLE ONE has failed, or even had the recording cut short. I use AR.
Don't worry
it's just Black Hole's one man campaign to try to get all of the AR users to change to using padding, as he does.
I for one won't be changing anytime soon, and I get the impression that you, and many others feel the same.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
OK, so you got lucky. I didn't choose to record Weatherview to be awkward, I have been recording it for months on padding.
This thread wasn't supposed to spark a debate on the pros/cons of AR/Padding - but at least it has shown that people tend to have a strong preference for one or the other.
It seems that I should come up with a system that works differently depending on whether the box is in AR or Pad mode - either Blacklist or Whitelist. That isn't actually going to be too difficult. I'm definitely blacklisting 5* - I had a recording last week which missed the last few minutes.
Out of interest, of the devices registered on the RS portal, 132 have updated to the latest rs package and, of those, 32 use padding (that's ~25%).
(* no, we haven't got a better name for it yet but hopefully will come up with something in the new year)
It seems that I should come up with a system that works differently depending on whether the box is in AR or Pad mode - either Blacklist or Whitelist. That isn't actually going to be too difficult. I'm definitely blacklisting 5* - I had a recording last week which missed the last few minutes.
Out of interest, of the devices registered on the RS portal, 132 have updated to the latest rs package and, of those, 32 use padding (that's ~25%).
(* no, we haven't got a better name for it yet but hopefully will come up with something in the new year)
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Not in the least, this pending utility will create a middle ground. What I am trying to get over is why I have a philosophical problem with "let's start from the basis that AR is goodness personified". To me it represents surrendering control to the broadcasters. Once we have the means to blacklist/whitelist channels (there is no practical difference; the distinction is a philosophical point) then we each have the means to set our own bar and only allow as much control as we want. I'm not impressed with the idea of having to set AR in the settings purely from that philisophical standpoint, but if I can't convince everyone else then I would rather set AR as default and then blacklist than have af123 double his effort to write two utilities.Don't worry
What I would prefer him concentrate on is whether he can find a way to operate a blacklist system AND further select individual programmes for AR/padding exception through the WebIF (though how you would stop the background process trying to reset them according the blacklist/whitelist is beyond me).
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
True, I have Mendip as my main transmitter and a Welsh repeater as a secondary (relegated to the 800's). I wrote the instructions how to do it. However, there were no regional variations advertised on the nights in question, and I won't accept multi-region reception is the cause of my AR failure unless somebody else reports successful recording of Weatherview simultaneously with a failure of mine. Who's up for it?
If I can establish a frequency of occurrence, I would be prepared to delete my Wales channels for a period of time to compare.
I've set Weatherview to record from BBC1 (SD) from Wednesday morning (to give my box time to wake up and sleep a couple of times). May be a useful reference point.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
Recorded OK last night. I reckon New Year's Eve will be the next critical point.
grahamlthompson
Well-Known Member
You surrender control to the broadcasters the second you press OK on a freeview-epg entry and/or select a series recording option. You are reliant entirely on the data being correct and in the case of an ongoing series that the crid codes and event id's are properly maintained. AR just like the epg relies on the broadcaster getting it right.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
True, in as far as a series recording goes. For a one-off recording clicking an EPG entry is much like the bar codes and VideoPlus codes - you can check what got set up and intervene if necessary, you still have ultimate control (even with series links, if you can be bothered to monitor the recording schedule). I do take your point, but I still see EPG as a "helper" and AR as a "controller" (hopefully benevolent but not necessarily).
I like the sound of the Topfield solution, having some kind of valid period during which the machine "can record" and a period within that when it "must record", with the AR marker used as part of the logic but not the whole logic. Without the equivalent of the Topfield's API though, it's a step beyond what we will be able to achieve.
Blue sky wish list: big padding margins, bookmarks set at AR start and end marks.
I like the sound of the Topfield solution, having some kind of valid period during which the machine "can record" and a period within that when it "must record", with the AR marker used as part of the logic but not the whole logic. Without the equivalent of the Topfield's API though, it's a step beyond what we will be able to achieve.
Blue sky wish list: big padding margins, bookmarks set at AR start and end marks.
That is a reality for anyone running a Toppy with MyStuff and Extend taps, and one reason why I have no plans to get rid of my Toppy 5800's.
I am not aware of any other boxes on the market that even come close to a suitably patched and tapped Toppy, so will continue to use them for all of my SD recordings.