Archiving

[Norrette]

Hi all,

This looks like the place to solve my problem. First of all I am one of those stubborn PC users who is still on XP and don't intend to upgrade until W10 has settled down, as I'll probably need new kit.

I have a DVD recorder which is about 4-5 years old and which works 'okay' to back up my T2 recordings. But the quality is awful (showing up even more now that tellys have so much improved definition). It's also a long realtime process.

I looked for a new DVD recorder online and found that, basically, they're not being developed anymore. So that option is off the drawing board.

I've being reading various threads here, and other places about copying to HDD or memory stick and then burning to DVD on my PC. Well I've spent all day, and got nowhere. Windows movie maker *will* import them but won't burn to DVD - well actually it did but my DVD recorder/player couldn't recognise the disc.

I have VLC software which that reads & plays my Humax files but when I try to burn to DVD I get a failure - Nero won't import them or import recoded files from VLC (not sure what the best settings are or whether I've screwed up the settings in the output profiles.)

I've just ordered a new DVD player, which can read most formats - so hopefully that will future-proof my back-ups for a few years, but I really would like to *burn digitally*.

Can anyone help this Windows XP user?

Cheers

 

[Black Hole]

It shouldn't be a problem, at least not for StDef recordings. I presume you are exporting recordings to your PC via copy-to-USB.

The main issue is that the video format has to be converted to a different format to be compatible with DVD burning, so you need a program capable of reading the .ts format and then burning to DVD. I appreciate this nay be tricky to find for XP, but there is a way around that: dual-boot Linux and use Linux tools.

I use Serif MoviePlus for this kind of job, but even that won't accept .ts, and I have to repackage it as .mpg first. Converting .ts to .mpg is relatively simple.

That is for burning a DVD that will play in any DVD player. Alternatively you can save raw data to DVD (using the DVD as digital storage), and modern players are able to access the raw data and play as if it is a media file on a computer. If your new player is able to play .ts (or .mpg), you can simply save the file to disc and replay it without any re-coding (which loses quality).

Your possibilities multiply if you use custom firmware on the HDR-FOX. Recordings can then be decrypted and imported directly to your PC via your home network (no transferring by USB), .ts can be converted to .mpg, and HiDef recordings are made available (but still awkward to burn to a playable DVD).

 

[Norrette]

That's a good point about the new DVD player, I haven't taken delivery yet. As well as std Bluray etc it says it plays :
DVD-ROM
DVD-R/DVD-RW
DVD+R/DVD+RW

and formats (not sure how images work in this forum) hope the attachment works


So maybe I'm covered? Although I don't see the .ts suffix there.

Thanks

 

[ian_j]

I used to use AVStoDVD when I wanted to burn a DVD of a recording, it's free and easy to use.

https://sites.google.com/site/avstodvdmain/

 

[Norrette]

Thanks Ian J - I have downloaded this but it says it won't burn to DVD. So I re-ran the install and went to the 'download the imageburn' software link and it takes me to a page with loads of ads where one can't see the wood for the trees.

 

[ian_j]

If you have some other DVD burning software on your PC it's not required (Nero, CDBurnerXP etc.) but here is a direct ink to download it: http://www.filehippo.com/search?q=imgburn

 

[Norrette]

Ahem! See messages and forum on the download page - that software is virus and adware ridden.

 

[ian_j]

Fair enough.

All I can say is that I have used it for many years (must be 10+) and have never had an issue with it or adware.

None of my AV or Adware scanners ave ever flagged it, but if you do not feel safe installing it I would recommend getting other software to burn your discs.

 

[HarveyB]

So maybe I'm covered? Although I don't see the .ts suffix there.

If you look in the second column "Container" you will find TS in there.
Looking at the associated formats (column 1) and sound options (column 4) it looks like you may have it covered
You may need to rename the files to mts or m2ts though, so that the player finds them.

 

[Norrette]

Ian, I think it was that mirror site - they may have been hacked. I found the pure site at download.imgburn.com - if other users need it I would suggest they click off all the 3rd party radio buttons carefully before the install.

Having done that I have, with some experimentation, burned a DVD direct from my UB stick using this software. First one I had lipsynch problems, but that was cured with an audio setting. However, it's not a quick process - given the time it takes the Humax to copy the file and then all the various steps the software takes. You'd think in the 21st century someone would release some simple software. I'd gladly pay the going rate if it worked... With the demise of the DVD recorder, someone could make a killing.

Didn't notice that Harvey, thanks - hoping this DVD player arrives this week!

 

[Black Hole]

Converting a TS recording (even StDef) to a playable DVD is not going to be quick however you do it, except by throwing a huge amount of processing power at it. It does look like your new player will cope with the raw file, and will probably play the recording file direct from USB as well as from a data DVD. As mentioned above, you might just need to rename the file from .ts to something else - a few quick experiments will sort that.

It is far more efficient to use an external USB drive for long-term storage of recordings. That way HDR-FOX recordings can be copied directly to the drive and played back directly from it (both StDef and HiDef, regardless of decryption). A DVD can hold 4.7GB of data, or a couple of hours of video if converted to a playable format. For about £50, a 1TB external hard drive holds 200 times that amount, the equivalent of 200 hours of HiDef recording or 1,000 hours of StDef recording. The only time taken to archive would be setting up the copy to USB - the copying then completes in the background with no further user involvement.

Ignoring early failure, a hard drive also has the potential to be more reliable than DVDs. DVD+/-R is reckoned to have a data life of about 10 years, so if you have something precious archived on DVD you have to keep regenerating it, and have a couple of copies. No such problem with a hard drive, except to maintain a backup copy.

The external hard drive archive is also playable with any device (not just HDR-FOX) that can cope with the video format. StDef are playable directly, HiDef recordings would only be playable on the originating HDR-FOX unless you take measures to ensure the recordings are decrypted (eg install the custom firmware for the HDR-FOX).

With regard to purchasing an external hard drive, it's best to look for one described as "portable" - these take power from the USB socket without requiring an additional power brick.

For more information see Things Every... (click) section 12.

 

[Norrette]

Hmm, Black Hole, I have a couple of external drives. My concern was that the Humax format was proprietary - but it seems not from your post, and my experimentation. So they could be future-proofed. Another concern I have is that it's putting all your eggs in one basket, so I'd want to copy off to another drive, items are so easy to delete as well.

This all-singing all-dancing DVD player I ordered isn't ready for collection yet - grrr!

Not going down your customised route though You're talking to someone who fried her PC motherboard a few years ago!

 

[Black Hole]

There are no such issues with the 'FOX CF - tried and trusted by many.

 

[Norrette]

Well, took delivery of the Sony Blu Ray 3D etc etc DVD player and I'm now a convert. It will play just about anything and especially the native Humax output as well. Why didn't I do this years ago? Probably cos a machine like this wasn't available. DVD recorder now relegated to the back of the obsolete IT kit cupboard yipee!

 

[Black Hole]

If you network them, you may well find the new player will also play content from the Humax directly. You will need to enable content sharing in the Humax menus:

Menu >> Settings >> System >> Internet Setting >> Content Share = On

 

[johnb]

I agree that the best way of archiving the Humax recordings is to use a HDD.

Having said that, it is relatively simple to convert the Standard Def Humax .ts files to DVD compatible .mpg files and burn them to a DVD. So the following is about SD recordings, which are relatively straightforward to process.

My understanding is that the video and audio contained in the standard definition broadcast transport stream are both fully compatible with the DVD standards - but the Humax, when it records the video, changes the packet size of the broadcast transport stream from 188 to 192 bytes (adding a 4 byte time stamp). In effect saving the broadcast in a m2ts container but using the .ts filetype.

VideoReDo is a very highly regarded video editing package. The version I use (VideoReDo TVSuite) can convert to the Humax .ts files to DVD compatible .mpg files (or elementary stream files) very quickly indeed (no re-encoding is required).

I have been using the VideoReDo TVSuite for years, but it isn't compatible with Windows XP. However the cheaper and less well featured "VideoReDo Plus" can be run on Windows XP and it can be downloaded as a free trial. It is many years since I used "VideoReDo Plus" so I am not totally sure of its capabilities (the website doesn't seem to have a specification) but I *think* it will also do what you are looking for (apart from burning to DVD) - but probably only for Standard Def recordings. - Anyway, you can always test it out with the free trail.

The method would be:

- Open the decrypted Humax .ts file in VideoReDo Plus (my VideoReDo TVSuite automatically recognises the Humax .ts file as being .m2ts)
- Do any editing (trimming the start, end and removing any adverts).
- Save as "MPEG2 Program Stream (.mpg)" or save as "MPEG2 Elementary Streams" - depending on what your DVD burning software prefers
- Burn to DVD using your preferred software

(Doing this will lose any subtitles. There are ways of extracting the subtitles from the .ts file and processing them to be included on a DVD - but life is too short.)

I used to go through the palaver of recording broadcasts (using a USB tuner), editing them, using a DVD authoring program to create menus and burn the lot to DVD and, to be honest, I got heartily the sick of the messing around. Storing the video on HDD is much, much more convenient.

 

[raydon]

My understanding is that the video and audio contained in the standard definition broadcast transport stream are both fully compatible with the DVD standards - but the Humax, when it records the video, changes the packet size of the broadcast transport stream from 188 to 192 bytes (adding a 4 byte time stamp). In effect saving the broadcast in a m2ts container but using the .ts filetype

The Humax does not add a four byte timestamp. These bytes are part of the broadcast stream, and is saved "as-is" by the Humax.

 

[johnb]

The Humax does not add a four byte timestamp. These bytes are part of the broadcast stream, and is saved "as-is" by the Humax.

You obviously know vastly more about this than I do, so please bear with me.

When I record a SD TV programme using a Hauppauge USB stick tuner (and its associated software) the resulting .ts file has a packet size of 188 bytes but the Humax SD .ts files have a packet size of 192 bytes. So that seems to indicate that either the Hauppauge software or the Humax is doing a packet size conversion.

What little information I can find online *seems* to indicate a 188 byte packet size for the SD DVB-T transport stream - though it is difficult to find much information and it is always possible that I am misinterpreting the little I came across.

So, please forgive me but I am not totally convinced that the Humax saves the SD stream "as is", though I would be very happy to be proved wrong.

 

[Black Hole]

The Humax definitely saves the TS data as broadcast; if the Hauppage saves something different, it must be stripping stuff out - probably specifically to make it DVD compatible.

There is a process available within the custom firmware called MPG conversion, using the ffmpeg tool set, which massages the TS (StDef only) into an MPG file which is then compatible with my video editor (Serif MoviePlus) when the TS wasn't. Perhaps somebody who knows the technicalities can comment whether the conversion results in 188-byte packets.

 

[EEPhil]

I'm no expert. I am trying to make sense of the Transport Stream for my own amusement. (Actually, trying to make sense of Raydon's documentation of nts files - in an attempt to create an nts from an existing ts without remuxing or using AV2HDR-T2 - as I said, my own amusement!)
There is no doubt that the Humax stores a packet size of 192 bytes. The standard is 188 bytes. I haven't checked my Hauppauge to see what the packet length is.
My understanding is that packet lengths greater that 188 often contain some sort of error correction. Could it be the Humax is storing the (4 byte) error correction and the Hauppauge uses and discards it? I wouldn't have though this has anything to do with DVD compatibility.
Converting to mpg would make it a programme stream which, as I understand it, has variable size packets - making the question irrelevant.
An interesting experiment would be to record the same (short) programme fragment on the Humax and Hauppauge and compare. (I may try this, again for my own amusement).