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Assume v. Presume

Mike0001 said:
Are the laws of physics bad?
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Yes! No easy anti-grav.

Except in ex[c]eptional circumstances it would be bad driving that caused an accident. A good driver makes allowances for bad weather.
If a high-sided lorry blows over in an unexpected gust of wind, is that bad driving or bad weather that caused the accident?

(Edit: exceptional not exeptional - bozo!)
 
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If you drive your car (or plane, or boat) through conditions that were forecast and that the car (plane/boat) or you cannot handle it's your fault. Take some responsibility for your life. :mad:
 
MikeSh said:
If you drive your car (or plane, or boat) through conditions that were forecast and that the car (plane/boat) or you cannot handle it's your fault. Take some responsibility for your life. :mad:
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Define fault. Does free will exist? At what point does matter acquire free will?

I despise such drivers just as much as you, but have no free will to do otherwise.
 
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Mike0001 said:
I despise such drivers just as much as you, but have no free will to do otherwise.
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This is straying somewhat from discussion of lexical issues, into philosophy, but it is nonetheless interesting and something our readership might not have come across before.

The conjecture is that individual human behaviour is dictated by the circumstances at the time and the electrochemical state in all the neurons (etc) in that particular human (which are a convolution of heredity and trajectory since conception), and therefore, with sufficient knowledge of the system, behaviour is as deterministic and predictable as the weather - and none of us are making perfectly free choices at all.

Therefore, say some, punishment for crimes is inappropriate because the subject was not acting from free will.

I say stop considering punishment as a retribution for the crime but as a means to influence future behaviour - not only by affecting the electrochemical system of the subject but also by affecting the state of the population as a whole (the knowledge that some people are punished when they perform some undesired action keeps the rest of us in line, just as I never needed the headmaster's cane - the knowledge that it existed and sometimes used was sufficient).
 
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Mike0001 said:
Define fault. Does free will exist? At what point does matter acquire free will?

I despise such drivers just as much as you, but have no free will to do otherwise.
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Fault as in made a mistake, as in didn't check the weather / didn't understand the weather / didn't know your transport couldn't handle the weather / didn't acquire the skills to handle the weather / didn't apply the skills if you had them / got distracted. All your fault - not an accident.

I've no idea what free will has to do with it. We make decisions ... they aren't always 'right'.
 
MikeSh said:
Fault as in made a mistake, as in didn't check the weather / didn't understand the weather / didn't know your transport couldn't handle the weather / didn't acquire the skills to handle the weather / didn't apply the skills if you had them / got distracted. All your fault - not an accident.

I've no idea what free will has to do with it. We make decisions ... they aren't always 'right'.
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Ah, but does the weather make decisions? The validity or otherwise of free will is crucial to apportioning blame, assigning faults, rather than unavoidable determinism.

There is also a load of research indicating that the brain decides to do something about half a second before we perceive ourselves as doing so. What does that say about free will? WikiPedia is surprisingly good on this topic.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neuroscience_of_free_will&article_action=watch

Free will may be, and likely is, an illusion. We know that neural activity determines our thoughts and actions, so if we have no control over that other than the use of alcohol or neuroactive drugs, who or what calls the shots? Can you blame someone because his brain decided he was going to do something? You can only punish the brain, by curtailing it's activity, eg, by putting it in prison. It's no more than akin to modifying a self driving car design that just killed someone, you can't blame the car, can you? But you can modify or ban it.
 
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