Confusion over recording from different channels at the same time

prpr · Apr 11, 2020

Trev said:
What are these 'quadrants' that you mentioned above BH?

One of Low H, Low V, High H, High V. Surely it's not too difficult?
It's nothing to do with Freeview and everything to do with satellite.

mihaid said:
he's made it up just like that silly term

More stupid drivel from you.

Black Hole · Apr 11, 2020

I agree I just coined that for this thread, but find an existing term for the four combinations of band and polarization and I'll happily use it.

mihaid said:
he's made it up just like that silly term for usb sticks.

Well, I think "USB stick" is at least as silly. It doesn't look much like a stick to me.

PokerP · Apr 11, 2020

Trev said:
It seems that someone (you?) factory reset it with only one cable connected so it went into the single cable mode.

No, today was the first time we've done a factory reset.
We've only been using the box for 4 weeks, but its 2nd hand....

Luke · Apr 11, 2020

Black Hole said:
... A signal is sent to the LNB (up the same cable, by pulsing the power feed) to select which particular quarter.

Trev said:
What are these 'quadrants' that you mentioned above BH? Never heard that term before WRT Freeview or any Humax box I have owned.

prpr said:
One of Low H, Low V, High H, High V. Surely it's not too difficult?
It's nothing to do with Freeview and everything to do with satellite.

Black Hole said:
I agree I just coined that for this thread, but find an existing term for the four combinations of band and polarization and I'll happily use it.

I vote for a term that I found during an internet search that was used in this context from about ten years ago, and still appears to be in use.
Examples:
From year 2009: https://www.avforums.com/threads/wi...works-with-a-magic-eye.1097810/#post-10561768
From year 2010: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/satellite-lnb-can-it-be-split.18098588/#post-15679013

mihaid · Apr 11, 2020

prpr said:
More stupid drivel from you.

Black Hole said:
I agree I just coined that

he's agreed. who's spouting drivel now?

Black Hole · Apr 11, 2020

God you're thick. Coining terms goes on all the time, how do you think you got the words you are using?

And anyway, it seems I was on the right track all along! Easy, because it's obviously an appropriate description.

Luke said:
I vote for a term that I found during an internet search that was used in this context from about ten years ago

Yay!

mihaid · Apr 12, 2020

Black Hole said:
God you're thick. Coining terms goes on all the time, how do you think you got the words you are using?

And anyway, it seems I was on the right track all along! Easy, because it's obviously an appropriate description.

Yay!

Would you care to say who are you agreeing with in the post I quoted above if it's not me. Especially since you are actually quoting me.

dandnsmith · Apr 12, 2020

Trev said:
What are these 'quadrants' that you mentioned above BH? Never heard that term before WRT Freeview or any Humax box I have owned.

I assume that this is from the combinations of High/Low frequency range with Vertical/Horizontal polarisation, but haven't heard it referred to that way

Trev · Apr 12, 2020

What confused me was this

Black Hole said:
Yes, ditto with a dual-tuner Freeview PVR. When you record from two different quadrants you can only view a third from the same two quadrants - ie you are denied about half the services. But on Freeview, the band is divided into something......

Apart from the use of an expression that I had never come across WRT either Freeview or Freesat. And I doubt if many others have either.

Trev · Apr 12, 2020

Black Hole said:
God you're thick. Coining terms goes on all the time, how do you think you got the words you are using?

But most people explain WTF they are talking about when they do. AND often put it in the correct context. Unlike your post which had two references to Freeview receivers when you introduced your 'new' terminology that was actually a reference to Freesat transmissions.
Take that.

Black Hole · Apr 12, 2020

Trev said:
most people explain WTF they are talking about when they do

I did, or at least I did to people who understand there are four combinations of two binary things (as you would if you followed my reference to the explanation in the glossary) and what the root of the word "quadrant" means. And it turns out this usage isn't new anyway.

Trev said:
two references to Freeview receivers

Yes, deliberately to highlight how the exclusions work, and how more limiting the exclusions are in the Freeview system compared with the Freesat system.

The satellite system is unavoidably divided into four mutually exclusive sections (ie quadrants!) by its very design. Freeview can have as many mutually exclusive sections as it likes (almost), so I don't know what to call them other than what we already call them: multiplexes.

Trev · Apr 12, 2020

Of course I understand there are 'quadrants' associated with signals from a lot (not all) commercial satellite LNBS two of which are wholly due to receiver/LNB configuration and nothing to do with the actual transmission.
But your TWO references to Freeview in the same paragraph foolishly led me to believe that you were talking about Freeview, an thus the term 'quadrants did not compute' in my simple brain. and I was simply asking for an explanation.

Trev · Apr 12, 2020

Black Hole said:
Yes, deliberately to highlight how the exclusions work, and how more limiting the exclusions are in the Freeview system compared with the Freesat system.

I give up. :frantic:

RobH1 · Apr 12, 2020

I think we all have too much time on our hands!

grahamlthompson · Apr 12, 2020

What can I record and watch using 1 or 2 cables « My Humax Forum

myhumax.org

Trev · Apr 12, 2020

Ta GLT. Porker (OP) is sorted and my head still hurts.

grahamlthompson · Apr 12, 2020

Black Hole said:
Ditto (not a sat user), so please excuse any inaccuracies but this might help.

It is certainly a basic condition of satellite reception that (for a single LNB with a single downlink cable) you can only access one quarter of the channels at one time. A signal is sent to the LNB (up the same cable, by pulsing the power feed) to select which particular quarter. See Glossary (click) item "LNB" for more description.

However, the Foxsat has two antenna inputs, for a dual LNB. It should be the case that if one input is dedicated to a particular service in a particular quadrant, all the other services in that same quadrant are also available, and any services in one different quadrant are available through the other tuner.

Could it be that you don't have the second antenna input connected, or your dual LNB is only half working, or only one tuner in the Foxsat is working?

There is also a conflict between operating in Freesat and non-Freesat modes (making services available that are not on the Freesat list).

I'm sure a forum search (restricted to this section of the forum) will yield information.

Basic forum user guide here: Newbies' Guide to the Forum (click)

Incorrect - the true number is much larger.

This down to the very small number of High Band channels that are on the Freesat epg. For low band channels split by polarisation (horizontal or vertical). If you exclude the high band channels then for a Foxsat-Hdr operating in single cable mode (tuner 1 out to tuner 2 in connected).

All the following information can be downloaded in Excel format which make it very easy to identify the permutationsl - Link provided in the last post in this thread.

The tuner 1 current transponder determines if tuner 2 can use horizontal or vertically polarised channels

If tuner 1 is using a vertical transponder then tuner 2 can view/record the following (note some ITV channels will not be available due to the setup postcode used.

Currently around 109 channels

172	QUEST	12382	H	LBV	1
103	ITV	10758	V	LBV	2
113	ITV2	10758	V	LBV	3
117	ITV4	10758	V	LBV	4
118	ITVBe	10758	V	LBV	5
154	ITV4+1	10758	V	LBV	6
602	CITV	10758	V	LBV	7
977	ITV London	10758	V	LBV	8
103	ITV London	10758	V	LBV	9
103	ITV Granada	10758	V	LBV	10
103	ITV Anglia East	10758	V	LBV	11
103	ITV Central West	10758	V	LBV	12
101	BBC One W Mid	10788	V	LBV	13
201	BBC Parliament	10788	V	LBV	14
703	BBC Radio 3	10788	V	LBV	15
704	BBC Radio 4 FM	10788	V	LBV	16
707	BBC 6Music	10788	V	LBV	17
708	BBC Radio 4 Ex	10788	V	LBV	18
710	BBC Radio 4 LW	10788	V	LBV	19
711	BBC World Sv	10788	V	LBV	20
712	BBC R Scotland	10788	V	LBV	21
713	BBC RnGaidheal	10788	V	LBV	22
714	BBC R Wales	10788	V	LBV	23
715	BBC R Cymru	10788	V	LBV	24
716	BBC R Ulster	10788	V	LBV	25
717	BBCRadioFoyle	10788	V	LBV	26
952	BBC One E Mid	10788	V	LBV	27
953	BBC One East E	10788	V	LBV	28
963	BBC One W Mid	10788	V	LBV	29
964	BBC One Wales	10788	V	LBV	30
967	BBC One Yk&Li	10788	V	LBV	31
971	BBC Two Wales	10788	V	LBV	32
212	BBC NEWS	10817	V	LBV	33
607	CBBC	10817	V	LBV	34
957	BBC One NI	10817	V	LBV	35
958	BBC One Oxford	10817	V	LBV	36
961	BBC One South	10817	V	LBV	37
962	BBC One S West	10817	V	LBV	38
969	BBC Two NI	10817	V	LBV	39
102	BBC Two HD	10847	V	LBV	40
106	BBC One HD	10847	V	LBV	41
600	CBBC HD	10847	V	LBV	42
971	BBC Two HD Wales	10847	V	LBV	43
972	BBC One HD	10847	V	LBV	44
949	BBC Two HD	10847	V	LBV	45
979	BBC Two Wales	10847	V	LBV	46
978	BBC One NI HD	10847	V	LBV	47
115	ITV3	10906	V	LBV	48
116	ITV3+1	10906	V	LBV	49
731	talkSPORT	10906	V	LBV	50
112	STV East + 1	10906	V	LBV	51
103	STV North	10906	V	LBV	52
103	STV Central West	10906	V	LBV	53
103	STV Central East	10906	V	LBV	54
112	ITV Granada + 1	10906	V	LBV	55
103	ITV Channel TV	10906	V	LBV	56
121	Channel 4 + 1	10936	V	LBV	57
123	E4 + 1	10936	V	LBV	58
124	More4	10936	V	LBV	59
301	Film4 + 1	10936	V	LBV	60
975	Channel 4 + 1	10936	V	LBV	61
111	STV HD	11068	V	LBV	62
111	ITV HD	11097	V	LBV	63
111	ITV London HD	11097	V	LBV	64
111	ITV Granada HD	11097	V	LBV	65
111	ITV Meridian South HD	11097	V	LBV	66
111	ITV Central West HD	11097	V	LBV	67
111	ITV HD Anglia East	11097	V	LBV	68
111	ITV HD Yorkshire West	11097	V	LBV	69
127	4seven	11126	V	LBV	70
206	RT HD	11225	V	LBV	71
209	NHKWORLD-JAPAN	11225	V	LBV	72
211	CGTN	11225	V	LBV	73
214	Arirang TV	11225	V	LBV	74
692	Revelation	11265	V	LBV	75
142	Sony Channel	11306	V	LBV	76
143	Sony Channel+1	11306	V	LBV	77
154	true ent	11306	V	LBV	78
302	Sony Movies	11306	V	LBV	79
303	Sony Classic	11306	V	LBV	80
305	Sony Action	11306	V	LBV	81
304	Sony Classic +1	11306	V	LBV	82
603	POP	11306	V	LBV	83
605	Tiny Pop	11306	V	LBV	84
604	POP Max	11306	V	LBV	85
134	CBS Drama	11343	V	LBV	86
136	CBS Reality +1	11343	V	LBV	87
139	horror ch+1	11343	V	LBV	88
135	CBS Reality	11343	V	LBV	89
137	CBS Justice	11343	V	LBV	90
138	horror channel	11343	V	LBV	91
305	Movies4Men +1	11343	V	LBV	92
156	YourTV	11343	V	LBV	93
693	ISLAM CHANNEL	11390	V	LBV	94
695	Sonlife TV	11390	V	LBV	95
120	S4C HD	11426	V	LBV	96
143	Sony Crime 2	11426	V	LBV	97
167	QUEST HD	11426	V	LBV	98
205	FRANCE 24(ENG)	11426	V	LBV	99
252	FreeSports HD	11426	V	LBV	100
210	CNBC	11479	V	LBV	101
215	TRT World	11508	V	LBV	102
175	SMITHSONIAN HD	11508	V	LBV	103
306	TalkingPics TV	11538	V	LBV	104
694	GOD Channel	11567	V	LBV	105
171	YANGA!	11597	V	LBV	106
695	Sonlife TV	11597	V	LBV	107
809	TJC	11597	V	LBV	108
208	Bloomberg TV	11685	V	LBV	109

For horizontally polarised channels the number is a little larger at 128 channels

104	Channel 4	10714	H	LBH	1
122	E4 + 1	10714	H	LBH	2
125	More4 + 1	10714	H	LBH	3
300	Film4	10714	H	LBH	4
974	Channel 4	10714	H	LBH	5
173	BBC Four	10773	H	LBH	6
110	BBC Four	10773	H	LBH	7
608	Cbeebies	10773	H	LBH	8
949	BBC Two HD	10773	H	LBH	9
950	BBC One Lon	10773	H	LBH	10
951	BBC One CI	10773	H	LBH	11
954	BBC One East W	10773	H	LBH	12
965	BBC One West	10773	H	LBH	13
968	BBC Two Eng	10773	H	LBH	14
981	BBC RB 1	10773	H	LBH	15
109	BBC ALBA	10802	H	LBH	16
174	BBC Scotland HD	10802	H	LBH	17
700	BBC Radio 1	10802	H	LBH	18
701	BBC Radio 1X	10802	H	LBH	19
702	BBC Radio 2	10802	H	LBH	20
705	BBC Radio 5L	10802	H	LBH	21
706	BBC Radio 5SX	10802	H	LBH	22
709	BBC Asian Net	10802	H	LBH	23
735	BBC R Cymru 2	10802	H	LBH	24
955	BBC One N West	10802	H	LBH	25
956	BBC One NE&C	10802	H	LBH	26
959	BBC One S East	10802	H	LBH	27
960	BBC One Scot	10802	H	LBH	28
966	BBC One Yorks	10802	H	LBH	29
970	BBC Two Scot	10802	H	LBH	30
112	ITV +1 West	10832	H	LBH	31
112	ITV +1 Wales	10832	H	LBH	32
112	ITV Anglia East +1	10832	H	LBH	33
103	ITV Wales	10832	H	LBH	34
103	ITV West	10832	H	LBH	35
103	ITV West Country South	10832	H	LBH	36
112	ITV +1	10891	H	LBH	37
114	ITV2+1	10891	H	LBH	38
119	ITVBe+1	10891	H	LBH	39
112	ITV West Country + 1	10891	H	LBH	40
112	ITV Central West + 1	10891	H	LBH	41
112	ITV London + 1	10891	H	LBH	42
103	ITV Meridian TV South	10891	H	LBH	43
103	ITV Tyne Tees TV North	10891	H	LBH	44
103	ITV Yorkshire West	10891	H	LBH	45
103	ITV Border	10891	H	LBH	46
105	Channel 5 HD	10964	H	LBH	47
128	Channel 5 +1	10964	H	LBH	48
129	5 USA	10964	H	LBH	49
130	5 USA +1	10964	H	LBH	50
132	Paramount	10964	H	LBH	51
131	5STAR	10964	H	LBH	52
133	My5	10964	H	LBH	53
141	5Spike	10964	H	LBH	54
112	ITV Tyne Tees	10994	H	LBH	55
103	ITV Central East	10994	H	LBH	56
103	ITV Border Scotland	10994	H	LBH	57
112	ITV Yorkshire TV East +1	10994	H	LBH	58
103	ITV Mediian TV North	10994	H	LBH	59
103	ITV Anglia TV West	10994	H	LBH	60
103	ITV Yorkshire TV East	10994	H	LBH	61
107	BBC Four HD	11023	H	LBH	62
108	BBC Scotland HD	11023	H	LBH	63
200	BBC NEWS HD	11023	H	LBH	64
601	CBeebies HD	11023	H	LBH	65
973	BBC One ScotHD	11023	H	LBH	66
976	BBC One Wal HD	11023	H	LBH	67
119	ITV HD (Tyne Tees)	11053	H	LBH	68
162	BLAZE	11082	H	LBH	69
203	Al Jazeera Eng	11082	H	LBH	70
207	CNN	11082	H	LBH	71
516	Spotlight TV	11082	H	LBH	72
690	Inspiration TV	11082	H	LBH	73
807	JewelleryMaker	11082	H	LBH	74
140	BET	11141	H	LBH	75
724	Absolute	11223	H	LBH	76
726	Absolute 80s	11223	H	LBH	77
733	Heart	11223	H	LBH	78
786	BFBS Radio	11223	H	LBH	79
691	DAYSTAR TV	11263	H	LBH	80
501	STARZ	11306	H	LBH	81
155	PBS America	11344	H	LBH	82
160	Really	12129	V	LBH	83
166	HGTV	12129	V	LBH	84
139	horror ch+1	11389	H	LBH	85
999	freesat info	11427	H	LBH	86
801	QVC Beauty	11493	H	LBH	87
802	QVC Extra	11493	H	LBH	88
803	QVC Style	11493	H	LBH	89
800	QVC	11493	H	LBH	90
171	YANGA!	11552	H	LBH	91
176	Live 360	11552	H	LBH	92
719	Capital	11552	H	LBH	93
720	Capital XTRA	11552	H	LBH	94
721	Classic FM	11552	H	LBH	95
722	Gold	11552	H	LBH	96
723	Radio X	11552	H	LBH	97
730	PlanetRock	11552	H	LBH	98
732	Smooth RadioUK	11552	H	LBH	99
736	Virgin Radio	11552	H	LBH	100
750	RTE Radio 1	11552	H	LBH	101
751	RTE 2fm	11552	H	LBH	102
752	RTE Lyric fm	11552	H	LBH	103
753	RTE RnaG	11552	H	LBH	104
790	TWR	11552	H	LBH	105
805	Gems TV	11552	H	LBH	106
817	Hochanda	11552	H	LBH	107
724	Absolute	11582	H	LBH	108
726	Absolute 80's	11582	H	LBH	109
733	Heart	11582	H	LBH	110
734	LBC	11582	H	LBH	111
786	BFBS Radio	11582	H	LBH	112
691	DAYSTAR TV HD	11612	H	LBH	113
812	IDEAL WORLD	11667	H	LBH	114
813	CREAT&CRAFT	11667	H	LBH	115
146	Challenge	11836	H	HBH	116
147	Challenge +1	11836	H	HBH	117
150	DMAX	11836	H	HBH	118
151	DMAX +1	11836	H	HBH	119
165	Forces TV	11836	H	HBH	120
144	Pick	12070	H	HBH	121
145	Pick + 1	12070	H	HBH	122
202	Sky News	12207	H	HBH	123
148	Food Network	12382	H	HBH	124
149	Food Network +1	12382	H	HBH	125
168	QUEST +1	12382	H	HBH	126
169	QUEST RED +1	12382	H	HBH	127
170	QUEST RED	12382	H	HBH	128

For completion total number of high band channels is just 18 channels

146	Challenge	11836	H	HBH	1
147	Challenge +1	11836	H	HBH	2
150	DMAX	11836	H	HBH	3
151	DMAX +1	11836	H	HBH	4
165	Forces TV	11836	H	HBH	5
144	Pick	12070	H	HBH	6
145	Pick + 1	12070	H	HBH	7
202	Sky News	12207	H	HBH	8
148	Food Network	12382	H	HBH	9
149	Food Network +1	12382	H	HBH	10
168	QUEST +1	12382	H	HBH	11
169	QUEST RED +1	12382	H	HBH	12
170	QUEST RED	12382	H	HBH	13
691	DAYSTAR TV HD	11685	V	HBV	14
157	Dave	12129	V	HBV	15
158	Drama	12129	V	HBV	16
159	Yesterday	12129	V	HBV	17
164	Together TV	12207	V	HBV	18

Black Hole · Apr 12, 2020

...so basically if you want to simultaneously record (say) Pick and Dave, you're very limited what you can watch as a third service. Ha!

grahamlthompson · Apr 12, 2020

Black Hole said:
...so basically if you want to simultaneously record (say) Pick and Dave, you're very limited what you can watch as a third service. Ha!

What a pathetic post. There is also Freeview,

No one has suggested using a single cable gives you all possible combinations. Just that your total ignorance of the real situation is frankly totally ignorant, flawed and for many thousands stuck with a single cable a more than acceptable solution. It also says a hell of a lot of your choice of viewing. It's clear you are now desperately looking for a for a face saving stupid post for a recorder that at best can only record 3 even with two seperate feeds. 25% of the channels is complete rubbish. It's 100% clear you have no idea as what the limitations are in respect of using a single cable with a a twin tuner satellite pvr or a second single tuner non recording freesat tuner. MY Foxsat-HDR records virtually nothing. The tuner 1 out is used to feed A Freesat TV. If i needed it could record to usb drive or for all channel live viewing. I don't because I have two twin channel Freesat+ pvrs that have the full recording capability. Turning on the TV gives live viewing of any freesat channel (and recording should I need it).

18 channels out of a potential 108 is pathetic compared to your 25% That excludes the +1 channels

I can't say I have used either channel for for a very long time.

You have sunk to a new low in my opinion.

If it helps others, the new Arris box when the recordable built in HDD recorder arrives that can use a wideband LNB (which from your total ignorance) I doubt you even have a clue how it works). Should be able to record most all possible combinations.

Visiblewave Sky Q 2 OUTPUT Wideband LNB for Q Boxes Zone 1 & 2 Satellites Dish | eBay

Visiblewave Wideband LNB 2 Output for Sky Q installations.

www.ebay.co.uk

Black Hole · Apr 12, 2020

grahamlthompson said:
There is also Freeview,

This is about Freesat and a Foxsat. I only drew a comparison with Freeview.

grahamlthompson said:
If it helps others, the new Arris box when the recordable built in HDD recorder arrives that can use a wideband LNB

What has that to do with a discussion about what restrictions apply to a third service on a Foxsat?

You have clearly totally misread my posts. I'm out.

Confusion over recording from different channels at the same time

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