• This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn more.
  • The forum software that supports hummy.tv has been upgraded to XenForo 2.0!

    This is a major upgrade which changes the look and feel of the forum somewhat but brings a host of improvements too. Please bear with us as we continue to tweak things and report any issues or suggestions in Site/Forum Issues.

[disable-ota / disable-dso] Taking Back Control!

prpr

Well-Known Member
#41
Now written. Time will tell if it fixes the problem...
epgfail.png

Bo**ocks. Will try increasing the time spent on the 'other' channel.

Interestingly, the box is currently tuned to 102, not 106, so I guess that's a bug in the WebIf.

Edit: Actually, I'm forgetting how this works. 106 is correct. Why isn't there a progress bar for 101 and 107? 101 @19:00 hadn't started then (about 18:46 I think) so why was it not showing 18:30?
Seems 120, 127 and 130 lack progress bars also.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#42
Being away at the moment
I'm back!

Via RS I set HDR1 for a near-future BBC2 recording, and a far-future BBC4 recording. After the next sync, the BBC2 recording was accepted, but the BBC4 recording is still queued due to "stale EPG" (and remains so many hours later)...

So I set the same BBC4 recording for HDR4, and it was accepted at the next sync. I reckon this is pretty good validation of the toggle strategy.
This is weird. I checked the status of the HDRs, and found the BBC4 recording in the schedule for HDR4, but the BBC2 recording is only in the pending queue for HDR1 with it saying a reboot is required. RTS is set on both (I checked).

What's going on?
 
OP
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#43
Obviously I didn't want to reboot it, but I tried turning RTS off and on again (no change). I went into WebIF EPG and tried scheduling the same recording, but as the programme was already somewhere in the queue the record options were not presented.

I deleted the queued entry, then back in the EPG re-scheduled the recording. This time it went straight into the schedule without being queued (as per RTS).

I seem to have exposed a bug with RS/RTS, but exactly what the bug is I am not sure.
 

mr-b

New Member
#44
Hi

What is the current recommendation for this setting? I've just got my mother a Humax and she is complaining that it keeps selelcting the BBC Red Button channel every day.
My head is spinning after reading the previous pages.
Also I'd like to prevent it waking up if possible as it's is a bedroom and can be noisy.

This update in the first post sounded relevant:

"It is thought that there will be no further over-the-air updates (and modern set-top boxes etc tend to use Internet methods to acquire updates). Nonetheless, a non-customised HD/HDR-FOX will still go looking for one at 0430 every day, coming out of standby to do so or interrupting what you might be watching (if you are an insomniac).

Admittedly, the second-line "reminder" entry in the recording schedule also wakes the unit up (or causes a channel change) which may also be inconvenient, but the reliability of the basic disable-ota package function is now much improved by turning on Real Time Scheduling in WebIF >> Settings >> Advanced Settings, and the reminder schedule entry is no longer needed."


But a cursory search revealed that Real Time Scheduling (whatever that is) can cause problems which I want to minimise for my mother. Also it doesn't say how to prevent the channel change.
 
OP
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#45
RTS is very useful for setting recordings via the Internet (or locally with the WebIF) because it avoids the need for reboots to inject schedule changes. The OTA search wake-up is just another schedule item, so disable-ota (which deletes OTA search schedules when they get reinstated, and therefore requires a reboot unless RTS is turned on) can be much more effective with RTS turned on, and then you won't need the belt-and-braces of the reminder schedule (this can be turned off in settings, and then you have to delete the existing reminder schedule manually). With disable-ota installed, RTS turned on, and the reminder turned off, there shouldn't be any unwanted early-hours disk spin-ups. With reminders turned on (for protection against the odd OTA that escapes disable-ota due to the boot requirement), the 'FOX is certain to spin up at 0420 every night.

RTS can result in occasional runaway recordings, but I've never had any and they are rare. What do you prefer: a slight risk of the very occasional recording not terminating, or a slightly greater risk of a 0430 spin-up for the occasional OTA wake-up that slips through?

The 'FOX starts up on whatever channel was last active. The default anti-OTA reminder sets the channel to Red Button because it doesn't generate disk activity (the disk still spins) and no audio. You can set it to something else if you want, or without the reminder the last channel will be the one the user last had. You can also set a default channel for every boot (which would over-ride the reminder channel) using the boot-settings package.

However, for what you want, I recommend:

disable-ota
No reminder (remember to remove it from the schedule)
disable-dso
RTS
 

mr-b

New Member
#46
Tx, I think I understand now! Ok I will turn on RTS.
Does the disable-ota setting "Create reminder to cover OTA period?" need disabling as well as deleting the existing event from the schedule?
 

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#48
With the removal of the OTA channel the reminder will become redundant.
http://dtg.org.uk/dtg/download_schedule.html

It obviously does no harm leaving it in but come the 30th April when even for optimists the daily OTA (over-the-air) search from the scheduled events database has no purpose perhaps the database update should be done as an integral part of the C/F?
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#49
Taking this one step further, does this mean that we can remove the disable-ota package?
And on a similar line, is disable-dso needed or does it still serve a useful function? (cionfused as to what it does and can't be assed ATM to find and read up about it.
 
OP
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#50
You forget that, without measures, the HDR-FOX will search for an OTA regardless of there not being one. disable-ota + RTS removes the need for the fall-back reminder schedule, and with no OTA there is no danger of the firmware being updated, so most people could run without reminders and not have the box wake up unnecessarily, but reminders remain essential for multi-region tuning and they might as well be at the OTA search time. A reminder that includes a channel change is also necessary to ensure the EPG doesn't become stale when the box is left on 24/7.

disable-dso prevents the box auto-retuning when you might not want it to. auto-schedule-restore gets over the worst consequences, but requires a reboot (which isn't happening with a 24/7 box), and without disable-dso, tunefix-update is all but pointless.
 
Last edited:

Trev

The Dumb One
#51
You forget that, without measures, the HDR-FOX will search for an OTA regardless of there not being one.
No, I hadn't forgotten that, but what is the disadvantage of that happening?
RTS removes the need for the fall-back reminder schedule,
What is the 'fall-back reminder schedule', and why does RTS overcome this?
so most people could run without reminders and not have the box wake up unnecessarily
But did you not just say that the box would do this anyway?
but reminders remain essential for multi-region tuning and they might as well be at the OTA search time.
I do not have the multi region problem.

IIRC there was a reference to tunefix in your original reply. Where does that fit in, or doesn't it?

I still don't understand it all. There are too many variables for my aged mind to comprehend.
Please point me to somewhere that explains it all and how they interact/don't interact in words of few syllables as possible.
 
OP
OP
Black Hole

Black Hole

May contain traces of nut
#52
<sigh>

The following applies to HD-FOX as well as HDR-FOX. It is all (mostly) documented elsewhere, such as the first post in this topic!

As standard, the HDR-FOX wakes up at 0430 every day to search for an OTA firmware update, or (if already on) goes off-line for a period while it does unless you cancel the operation when prompted. If the unit is located in a bedroom, you might prefer it didn't do that and disable-ota removes the item in the schedule that makes it happen (and the search gets added to the schedule periodically if/when the Humax firmware spots it is missing). Removal can only occur at boot, so if there is no boot between the search being added to the schedule and the scheduled time for the search, the wake-up will happen regardless of having disable-ota installed. Note that the search item is not listed on-screen when the schedule is displayed, so cannot be removed manually.

A scheduled reminder spanning 0430 can be used to prevent an OTA search occurring, although admittedly that makes the unit wake up too. This defends against the circumstance that an OTA search slips through despite disable-ota being installed, as described in the previous paragraph. The consequence of an unwanted OTA search is that if it finds a firmware update it could over-write the custom firmware. If there are certain to be no further OTA updates, this fall-back defence is not necessary.

Enabling RTS (Real-Time Scheduling) makes it possible for disable-ota to remove the OTA search from the schedule without a boot. This makes it very unlikely that a search will slip through the defences, the unit won't wake up, and a fall-back defensive reminder schedule is not necessary (even if there were OTA updates pending).

Scheduled reminders have other defensive functions in ensuring the EPG is maintained up-to-date for the circumstances of (a) multi-region tuning (see https://hummy.tv/forum/threads/advice-for-tuning-multiple-regions.3429/); and (b) a unit that is left on and idle for long periods or off with no events scheduled in the next week (and prior to a firmware update, using AR for recordings also left the EPG to go stale).

For HDR-FOXes that are kept mostly turned on, the epgfix package enforces a channel change (and back again) at a selectable time of day. This is to overcome a Humax bug that allows the EPG to go stale if left idle.

To absolutely ensure the EPG is maintained (which is essential for scheduled recordings to occur correctly) under all possible circumstances, the HDR-FOX must be woken regularly (if not already awake), and change channels regularly (if not asleep). This can be achieved by setting a daily reminder (for a time that does not inconvenience other use) in combination with epgfix, or using a pair of reminders.

Wake-ups intended to update the EPG must be 20 minutes duration minimum, to ensure the entire EPG broadcast cycle is captured. It is convenient to time these reminders to cover the 0430 OTA search, although they do mean the unit will wake up and make a noise so another time could be used (in combination with disable-ota + RTS).

As standard, when Freeview announces a tuning change (including LCN shuffles), the Humax firmware inserts an auto-retune event into the schedule. Auto-retunes summarily delete the user's recording schedule, and may result in the non-preferred TV region being selected (if more than one is available). disable-dso removes the auto-retune event from the schedule, subject to the same limitations as disable-ota and the same improvement available by enabling RTS. Unlike disable-ota, there is no fall-back defence available.

auto-schedule-restore can re-create the user's recording schedule following a retune event, by detecting an empty schedule and replacing it with the most recent backup copy (suitably modified for the new tuning), but only at boot time. If there is no boot between a retune and the time the user was expecting a recording to be made, the recording won't happen. Without auto-schedule-restore, the recording wouldn't happen anyway.

After a retune, the user typically wants to delete a number of unwanted services and may want to reorganise the LCN allocation of services. This can be achieved automatically by providing tunefix with a definition file and simply rebooting after each retune event.

However, by installing tunefix-update (confusingly, nothing to do with the tunefix package), pre-announced Freeview tuning changes can be incorporated into the HDR-FOX tuning database in such a way that a retune is not necessary, thereby sidestepping the troublesome consequences of performing a retune. Thus, when using tunefix-update, it is desirable that auto-retunes are actively prevented - ie use of disable-dso is strongly recommended (otherwise tunefix-update is less effective than it could be).

The tunefix-update package must, itself, be kept up-to-date to be able to do its job, and includes a self-updater independent of the general auto-update package from version 1.0.35 onwards (this is reliant on the HDR-FOX having an active Internet connection). If your installed tunefix-update package is previous to version 1.0.35, you need to update it.

OK?
 
Last edited:

Luke

Well-Knwοn Мember
#53
The tunefix-update package must, itself, be kept up-to-date to be able to do its job, and that (at the moment, until and unless an alternative update mechanism is provided) implies the use of the auto-update package to keep all the user's custom firmware packages updated.
Isn't an alternative what version 1.0.35 of tunefix-update added?
1.0.35:
Automatic update mechanism implemented
...​
 

Trev

The Dumb One
#54
Thanks for that BH. I think after a couple of re-reads I might just have a handle on it (until tomorrow:))
And now Luke muddies the waters.:roflmao:
 

DAsh

New Member
#56
Just for info, the DTG are closing down the Engineering Channel next month (end April). This means from that point there will be no more OTA updates for any devices. Any updates, if wanted, from that point will have to be done using wifi/ethernet or downloading to usb.