EPG listing swamped by GREAT! movies

[alanofcleeves]

I'm fortunate to have more than one HDR.
Most days I check the "main" one for upcoming movies using the standard Humax interface ( Guide -> Find -> Genre -> Movie).

The standard interface can list a maximum of 400 entries but the limit is often exceeded thanks to the annoying practice of splitting movies, causing each entry to get two lines in the listing, so there is a risk of missing something. I always delete all "+1" channels so usually the risk is quite small, except around Christmas when a lot more movies are screened, but I have noticed a big change in the past few days.

This morning my 'Movies' list finds
- 321 entries for channels called "GREAT!....."
- 79 entries for "TalkingPictures"
- zero entries for any other channel

This method of checking the EPG is now rendered useless (thanks very much "cscmediagroup.com").

I can of course delete all the "GREAT!...." channels, and probably not lose anything that I would want to watch, but does anyone know of a workaround or better method?

 

[trog]

I'm fortunate to have more than one HDR.
Most days I check the "main" one for upcoming movies using the standard Humax interface ( Guide -> Find -> Genre -> Movie).

The standard interface can list a maximum of 400 entries but the limit is often exceeded thanks to the annoying practice of splitting movies, causing each entry to get two lines in the listing, so there is a risk of missing something. I always delete all "+1" channels so usually the risk is quite small, except around Christmas when a lot more movies are screened, but I have noticed a big change in the past few days.

This morning my 'Movies' list finds
- 321 entries for channels called "GREAT!....."
- 79 entries for "TalkingPictures"
- zero entries for any other channel

This method of checking the EPG is now rendered useless (thanks very much "cscmediagroup.com").

I can of course delete all the "GREAT!...." channels, and probably not lose anything that I would want to watch, but does anyone know of a workaround or better method?

My T2 is not connected so I cannot check if this works but can you make a favourite list that only includes the channels you want and then just search that in the guide?

 

[alanofcleeves]

My T2 is not connected so I cannot check if this works but can you make a favourite list that only includes the channels you want and then just search that in the guide?

I've created a favourite list and selected it.
The EPG display correctly omits the offending channels but a search using "Guide -> Find -> Genre -> Movie" still displays results from the full channel list, unfortunately.

 

[MymsMan]

can you make a favourite list that only includes the channels you want and then just search that in the guide?

Yes, that works for me on both Webif and RS

I've created a favourite list and selected it.
The EPG display correctly omits the offending channels but a search using "Guide -> Find -> Genre -> Movie" still displays results from the full channel list, unfortunately.

I am not sure why it isn't working for you

I never normally use Genre searches because I don't trust that prorammes have been callassified correctly - The fact that Great... weren't appearing before seems to indicate they weren't setting the genre on their programmes before

 

[alanofcleeves]

I don't trust that prorammes have been classified correctly

Agreed. For example I can see that "GREAT Movies" - "Programmes return at 6am" is classified as "Film/Drama"

I was using the HDR's remote control to search the EPG listing on the TV screen via the Hummy's own UI.
"Guide -> Find -> Genre -> Movie" used in this way seems to ignore Favourite channel lists and always searches the whole EPG, which is pretty silly.
For me this is still the most convenient ad hoc way to look for movies in the EPG but, as described, it has been hijacked by the minor channels to promote their offerings.

I do have CF installed (can't imagine Hummy life without it, a big +1 from me to all concerned), and also RS, but I posted this in the non-CF section in case others were finding the same problem.

I was pretty sure that CF would offer solutions but hoped there might be a method that doesn't require it (for me that means a trip upstairs to look at the EPG or RS on a computer screen).

 

[bottletop]

I'm fortunate to have more than one HDR.
...

This method of checking the EPG is now rendered useless (thanks very much "cscmediagroup.com").

I can of course delete all the "GREAT!...." channels, and probably not lose anything that I would want to watch, but does anyone know of a workaround or better method?

I think that's the easiest solution for now. Remove the GREAT! channels from the HDR you wish to do the genre search on. The worst channels are
GREAT! action (42)
GREAT! romance (52)
GREAT! romance mix (63) (although I excluded it anyway as it's stream TV).

This is only a work around. I think we should email the offending company to ask them to fix their EPG!
It may be https://www.greatnetwork.com/contact-us/

..I am not sure why it isn't working for you..

For WebIF epg genre search
This requires setting up a favourite without the offending GREAT! channels.
Then WebIF/Settings/EPG Settings/Channel Group for EPG set to the correct favourite.

WebIF/EPG/Context Type Searches
For some strange reason it has Film/Drama as one search rather than two separate genre searches (it doesn't reflect the genre search on HDR UI). Should it be separated into two?

 

[alanofcleeves]

Thanks to everyone for help and suggestions with this.
I plan to delete the GREAT!* channels from the "main" HDR, so that the standard UI can still be used sensibly, and leave them on another HDR which I normally access via WebIf.

It is a pity that genre search using the standard UI ignores a selected Favourites list but there are worse things out there to worry about.

This is only a work around. I think we should email the offending company to ask them to fix their EPG!
It may be https://www.greatnetwork.com/contact-us/

Thanks for the link, I'll drop them a line and report back anything useful.

 

[alanofcleeves]

Update
Today, with no input from me, things have changed dramatically which suggests that "greatnetwork.com" have been doing some housekeeping.

Yesterday, using the Humax UI to search for Genre: Movies, the situation was:

• 321 entries for channels called "GREAT!....."
• 79 entries for "TalkingPictures"
• zero entries for any other channel

Today I see:

• 243 entries for channels called "GREAT!....."
• 157 entries for other channels

"It's not perfect, for example:
On GREAT! Movies - "Programmes return at 6am" is classified as "Movie/Drama"
On GREAT! Movies - "TJC Affordable Luxury", ie Teleshopping, is also classified as "Movie/Drama"

Nevertheless it is now usable again with the standard Humax UI, especially if I lose
GREAT! action (42)
GREAT! romance (52)
GREAT! romance mix (63)

 

[Luke]

For some strange reason it has Film/Drama as one search rather than two separate genre searches (it doesn't reflect the genre search on HDR UI). Should it be separated into two?

Just ignore the word 'Drama' in that context.
The WebIf/RS search descriptions (e.g. "Film/Drama") are based on the wording for something called the DVB description which is a general standard (ETSI EN 300 468). The DTT descriptions, at least in the UK, have their own variation. For 'Movie/Drama' both WebIf, and RS, looks for exactly the same internal code (content-nibble-level-1 = 0x1) as the Humax UI search's 'Movie'.

What is missing from both the WebIf sweeper search and the RS search is the ability to use sweeper to directly identify Drama (content-nibble-level-1 = 0xF). To search for Drama using those you would need to use something like:

Content_nibble_level_1	DVB Description	DTT Description
0x0 * **	Unclassified	Unclassified
0x1 * **	Movie/Drama	Movie
0x2 * **	News/Current affairs	News and Factual
0x3 * **	Show/ Game show	Entertainment
0x4 * **	Sports	Sport
0x5 * **	Children‘s/ Youth programmes	Children‘s
0x6 **	Music/Ballet/Dance	Entertainment
0x7 **	Arts/Culture (without music)	News and Factual
0x8 **	Social/Political Issues/Economics	News and Factual
0x9 * **	Education/Science/Factual Topics	Education
0xA * **	Leisure hobbies	Lifestyle
0xF *	user defined	Drama

* = searchable via Humax UI ; ** = searchable via WebIf/RS.
When the Humax info panel is displayed for a 0x7 programme the Humax will erroneously "Unclassified".

 

[bottletop]

Thank you for the detailed reply, but there is a mismatch between the genre search results that the HDR UI produces and the WebIF genre search.
Eg on HDR
Genre:
Unclassified
Movie
News and Factual
Entertainment
Sport
Children's
Education
Lifestyle
Drama

So on the HDR UI Movie returns only movies and Drama returns only drama, whereas on WebIF they're combined (i.e. drama or movie). I wonder how the HDR separates them?

Edit: Ignore me!
I think it's an issue with my HDR, as the WebIF search for movie/drama produced past results that where not movies. It confused me, but it looks like future ones are correct.

 

[Luke]

Thank you for the detailed reply, but there is a mismatch between the genre search results that the HDR UI offers and the WebIF genre search.
Eg on HDR
Genre:
Unclassified
Movie
News and Factual
Entertainment
Sport
Children's
Education
Lifestyle
Drama

So on the HDR UI Movie returns only movies and Drama returns only drama, whereas on the WebIF they're combined (i.e. drama or movie). I wonder how the HDR separates them?

They are two separate genres.

On the WebIf (and RS) if 'Film/Drama' is selected it will only select the events that freeview broadcasters have tagged as Movie.
This is the reason why I suggested that where anyone sees the combination 'Film/Drama' that they should ignore the "Drama" bit of the description. Selecting 'Film/Drama' will just filter on the freeview classification of 'Movie'.

 

[prpr]

What is missing from both the WebIf sweeper search and the RS search is the ability to use sweeper to directly identify Drama (content-nibble-level-1 = 0xF)

You can do this on the WebIf.

 

[Luke]

You can do this on the WebIf.

Thanks. (Scratching my head wondering how I missed that, then got it correct at the end of the same post.)

So it's just RS that 'Drama' is missing from the searchable genre list.

WebIf sweeper VS RS Rule:


For the WebIf there are some other places that for some other genres that display the DVB Description instead of the DTT description, and erroneously makes it look as though the broadcaster has got it wrong when they haven't.
E.g. On the Humax UI this example is displayed as 'News and Factual'

 

[alanofcleeves]

No news yet from "greatnetwork.com"

This topic has moved on a bit, but that's fine, so.....

On the WebIf EPG screen it would be really useful if a Favourites Channels List could be selected, instead of having to go backwards and forwards between Settings/EPG and the EPG screen.
Is there any chance that could be done?

 

[prpr]

For the WebIf there are some other places that for some other genres that display the DVB Description instead of the DTT description, and erroneously makes it look as though the broadcaster has got it wrong when they haven't.

This is all a bit of a mess. The WebIf has two different lists and then the epg utility has another one. Some of these are the same and some are different. Then there's RS (but we can't do anything about that).
I can make WebIf and epg consistent with the DTT naming, but then you'll end up with stuff like this:

Is that the best thing to do?

 

[/df]

if there would be apparent duplicates as in the (?) mock-up, could the more specific DVB headings be in a tooltip (or otherwise made visible), when available?

 

[prpr]

I think the below is slightly less unfriendly, more descriptive and as close as we can get to the actual spec. and what the Humax natively shows, without being too wordy (it's slightly too for my liking but...).
Having investigated all content types, the Humax software actually shows the wrong icon for types 6, 7 and 8 (Music, Arts and Social), and the WebIf does for type 2 (Show).
As you see, the below fixes all this in the WebIf. This is no mock-up - it's the development (and proposed release) version!

 

[Luke]

Having investigated all content types, the Humax software actually shows the wrong icon for types 6, 7 and 8 (Music, Arts and Social),

Discovering: The Beach Boys on Sky Arts is genre 6.
Beach Boys: Good Vibration Tour on Sky Arts is genre 3.

In the Humax UI they are both showing a Star and "Entertainment". What are you expecting?

It's similar with the examples of 2, 7 and 8 I've looked at with all three showing the Microphone and "News and Factual" on the Humax UI.

 

[MymsMan]

Perhaps split the list over 3/4 lines so that it formats better in narrow windows.
I assume the same text will appear on the EPG details, Media details and everywhere else Genre is used in the webif,
will hmt program also follow suit?

 

[prpr]

I'd expect 6 to show the Music icon and 3 to show the Star icon in my image in #17.
2 should show the microphone icon (which it does), 7 the (I don't know what you call it!) icon, and 8 the people icon.