Freeview Channel Update Info

[Ezra Pound]

BH Holes said : the LCNs are going UP, and consequently the position a service occupies in the list ordered by LCN moves DOWN

8 Hours earlier prpr said : the LCNs are increasing by 1, but they are moving down the list

BH said : It is therefore ambiguous to make any unqualified statement about moving up or down.

8 Hours earlier prpr said : Just stating "moving up" or "moving down" without qualifying it is unhelpful.

Why are you repeating what has already been stated?

 

[MikeSh]

I uttered a magic incantation last night to do most of the work:
sqlite3 channel.db "select \"MOVE\",uslcn,uslcn+1,substr(szsvcname,2) from tbl_svc where uslcn between 24 and 55 order by 2 desc;"

Yep - looks like magic to me.

Why should it?

I don't know, it just looked like a big job. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of t-u doing a big number on the system and it breaking Humax's code.

 

[EEPhil]

Why are you repeating what has already been stated?

Probably to make me feel doubly guilty for not explaining it properly in the first place.

 

[EEPhil]

I uttered a magic incantation last night to do most of the work:
sqlite3 channel.db "select \"MOVE\",uslcn,uslcn+1,substr(szsvcname,2) from tbl_svc where uslcn between 24 and 55 order by 2 desc;"

Yep - looks like magic to me.

It doesn't look like magic to me - and I have no direct knowledge of sqlite.

 

[prpr]

I don't know, it just looked like a big job.

Freeview Retune day on 2nd Aug. 2017 was a big job! I've just looked at it and that amounted to 72 individual configuration items and took ages to do.
This one is looking like 47 (including a few from this week and before), but most of them are trivial and auto-generated, and the rest are easy.
It also requires a trivial code change to the tunefix engine.

I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of t-u doing a big number on the system and it breaking Humax's code.

It's just database manipulation. Humax's code isn't involved (other than the standard libraries they supply, but that's all somebody else's code). My code doesn't have any specific limits.

 

[Black Hole]

Why are you repeating what has already been stated?

I would have thought that was fairly obvious:

Jeez, How hard can it be?
But just to clarify for me, does this mean, for instance that itv4 will move from LCN24 to LCN 25 with the jock prog at LCN24

To clarify:

 

[Trev]

Well, it was the confusion brought about with people using the terms 'up' and 'down' to mean exactly the same thing. How much confusion could that cause. Ant what about those folk who have their TVs on the ceiling or in space where there is no up or down.

 

[Luke]

To clarify: the LCNs are going UP, and consequently the position a service occupies in the list ordered by LCN moves DOWN. It is therefore ambiguous to make any unqualified statement about moving up or down.

Only for those lists that include BBC four as LCN 24. In other lists the position a service occupies remains unchanged.

what about those folk who have their TVs on the ceiling or in space where there is no up or down.

It would be the same as people who have their tv in a more traditional position and don't receive from a Scottish transmitter. For non-Scottish transmitters the channels are staying in exactly the same location on a TV's channel list. Within the TV channel list most folk will find the channels have not moved at all and that it is only the associated LCN for a particular channel that has changed.

 

[Black Hole]

Only for those lists that include BBC four as LCN 24. In other lists the position a service occupies remains unchanged.

Sure, but in the overall list of services (not an edited one)...

Well, it was the confusion brought about with people using the terms 'up' and 'down' to mean exactly the same thing. How much confusion could that cause. Ant what about those folk who have their TVs on the ceiling or in space where there is no up or down.

This is entirely relevant to the user interface, as I have come to realise because of dealing with somebody of declining cognitive ability:

The P rocker button on the Humax RC (and I guess most RCs) does P+ at the top of the button and P- at the bottom of the button. P+ increases the current LCN, but effectively goes down the list, even though it is intuitively "up" (and has an up arrow embossed on it). But, with the EPG or service list displayed, it goes up the list (down in LCN).

A possible solution is to display the list from the bottom of the screen going upwards, instead of the more traditional from the top of the screen downwards. I have thought about it, and come to the conclusion there is no reason not to do it that way - it would not be counter-intuitive to display a listing that way. Then "up" would literally go upwards as well as increasing the index number.

 

[prpr]

A possible solution is to display the list from the bottom of the screen going upwards

My telly does that, not that I ever use it.

Phone v computer keypads is a similar type of annoyance, but it actually seems not to cause any problems:
123
456
789
*0#

789
456
123
0 .

 

[Luke]

Sure, but in the overall list of services (not an edited one)...

Would you call a list that is displayed on a TV that has been tuned from a non-Scottish transmitter "an edited one"?

 

[EEPhil]

Well, it was the confusion brought about with people using the terms 'up' and 'down' to mean exactly the same thing. How much confusion could that cause.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't mentioned the changes next week. Then we wouldn't have the arguments over (or should that be under) what is up and down in a list. Argh!

 

[Black Hole]

What's wrong with having a talking point? I thought you said you were bored...

 

[RobH1]

I think that was me BH. Not bored now as I've been playing about with various Linux distros' in Virtualbox. Can't wait for some decent weather to get out and get a life!

 

[Trev]

Whenever I tell my Mrs to "Scroll down" meaning show more of the page that is currently off the bottom of the screen, she always corrects me and says "That's scroll up, not down".

 

[Black Hole]

Whenever I tell my Mrs to "Scroll down" meaning show more of the page that is currently off the bottom of the screen, she always corrects me and says "That's scroll up, not down".

Yes, that's another issue, and depends whether you perceive the document to be moving or the viewport. I have known programs to respond to cursor controls either way.

 

[EEPhil]

I have known programs to respond to cursor controls either way.

I've known badly written programs to move the viewport up or left when you press a down or right arrow key. (Just to be clear - if it applied to this page/browser combination, pressing the down arrow key [ie. the one pointing at me] the viewport moves towards the top of the page. Is that clear enough? )

 

[EEPhil]

I think that was me BH.

I didn't think it was me, but I thought I'd let that one ride.

 

[Black Hole]

I've known badly written programs to move the viewport up or left when you press a down or right arrow key.

Why does that constitute "badly written"? It might be perfectly well written in accordance with the requirement spec. Whether the cursor controls move the viewport or the document is purely a question of convention.

If it is perceived that moving the document is counter-intuitive, it is the spec that's wrong not the program itself.

Similar thing: when zooming, should scrolling the mouse wheel forward take the viewport closer to the document (ie zoom in) or the document further away from the viewport (zoom out)?

 

[EEPhil]

Why does that constitute "badly written"?

Because similar programs performing the same function work in the "expected" manner.

Similar thing: when zooming, should scrolling the mouse wheel forward take the viewport closer to the document (ie zoom in) or the document further away from the viewport (zoom out)?

Depends on how you are defining forward.
(I would expect moving the top of the wheel away from you should zoom in. If it zoomed out I'd be a bit discombobulated.)

If it is perceived that moving the document is counter-intuitive, it is the spec that's wrong not the program itself.

The programmer can always rectify the counter-intuitive problem. I did that once when someone specified a crap gui. I offered an alternative suggestion which was then used.