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H/w faults within the first 6 months

C

ColinS

Member
:( Sadly, my HDR-Fox T2 has a fault somewhere in its power supply. Probably something like a dry solder joint. Symptoms have been failures, increasing in frequency, due to power supply interruptions within the box, resulting in failed recordings and unsolicited reboots. Having gone through all the necessary fault indentifcation processes with Humax, they have confirmed that the box is faulty. It is only just 4 months old.
Which takes us to what happens next, which I thought would be helpful to anyone else in similar circumstances.
Several of you have already commented on the Forum about the (possible) limitations of Humax's warranty exchange program, and so when they offered this, I thought it wise to ask them to detail it explicitly. The response was :
"The Humax exchange under warranty will be a reconditioned unit. We would not be able to exchange with a new unit. We can get the unit repaired for you if you would not like an exchange. This would take 5-10 working days to complete."
I don't know about anyone else, but I do not think this is a good deal for faults arising within the first 6 months. Under the exchange I am being asked to accept a refurbished box, whose provenance, condition, age and fault history is unknown to me, and who's value (as sold on Humax Direct) is only 75% of what I paid for it only 4 months ago, and with a warranty of only half that of the original.
I have therefore decided instead to invoke my statutory rights to a refund under the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Under the Act, there is an implied contract term that the goods be as described, fit for purpose, and of satisfactory quality.
Additionally, any faults arising within the first 6 months are assumed to have been present at the time of purchase, and the onus is on the supplier to prove otherwise. By invoking my statutory rights to a refund of all monies in these circumstances, I will be restored to the status quo ante, and as I have no reason to believe that, for example, there are a batch of HDR-Fox T2s with this fault, I can repurchase a guaranteed new one, thereby resetting my statutory rights and warranty period in respect of its replacement.
The letter has been sent off. I shall update this thread if it does not transpire as expected (I expect, perhaps, some initial resistance on their part), but they would be unwise to have it tested in the small claims court as all of this is established case law, and they would lose on those points.
So, an important principle for all of us: keep a sharp weather eye out for any problems arising within the first 6 months of ownership, and be aware that you statutory rights take precedence over any maufacturer's warranty scheme.
 
Yes, if it was not clear, the letter has gone to the retailer. Humax Direct Ltd., from whom I purchased it. :( The relationship between the two is not entirely clear. You contact the support people on that retailer's website, you get Humax, who speak about their warranty, not your rights from the retailer.

I think the key point here is that in certain circumstances, your statutory rights may be more useful to you than the warranty, especially if you judge those rights to be more useful to you in the circumstances than the warranty, as in the first 6 months of the thread title.
 
As I have requested before, please tell us the serial number of your box to start a register of returned units.
 
Black Hole said:
As I have requested before, please tell us the serial number of your box to start a register of returned units.
Click to expand...
Certainly. I shall happily do so when I am packing it up for return.

Progress note: no read acknowledgement to the email sent on Friday; therefore copies sent by Royal Mail today.
 
To be honest, I can't see why you're fussed about a warranty replacement.
My parents had a warranty exchange and were very pleased. The replacement unit appears brand new. It's completely unmarked and came with all the plastic stickers in place. If it isn't a new unit, they've certainly put it in a new case.
You won't get half the warranty with a replacement either. The original warranty period will still be valid.
 
Cynar said:
To be honest, I can't see why you're fussed about a warranty replacement.
... The replacement unit appears brand new. ...The original warranty period will still be valid.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:
1)The Humax exchange under warranty will be a reconditioned unit.
2) I am being asked to accept a refurbished box, whose provenance, condition, age and fault history is unknown to me, and who's value (as sold on Humax Direct) is only 75% of what I paid for it only 4 months ago
3) there is an implied contract term that the goods be as described, fit for purpose, and of satisfactory quality.
4) The manufacturer has no legal obligation to provide a warranty in the UK

Would you like to buy my faulty Hummy? It's in otherwise perfect condition, and at only £355 including shipping it would make a great Xmas present for someone who doesn't care what they get for their money. Interested?
 
IMHO the unit is not fit for purpose and I would reject it and ask for a refund (under the terms of the Sales of Goods Act (as ammended)).
Then buy a new one.

Steve
 
ColinS said:
:rolleyes:
1)The Humax exchange under warranty will be a reconditioned unit.
2) I am being asked to accept a refurbished box, whose provenance, condition, age and fault history is unknown to me, and who's value (as sold on Humax Direct) is only 75% of what I paid for it only 4 months ago
3) there is an implied contract term that the goods be as described, fit for purpose, and of satisfactory quality.
4) The manufacturer has no legal obligation to provide a warranty in the UK

Would you like to buy my faulty Hummy? It's in otherwise perfect condition, and at only £355 including shipping it would make a great Xmas present for someone who doesn't care what they get for their money. Interested?
Click to expand...

I still think the Humax warranty exchange is fabulous.
If yours fails, they collect it and replace it with a fully functioning unit at nil cost to you.
You don't even have to set foot outside your door and there's no waiting for a repair.

I think your assertion that the replacement is only worth 75% of what you paid is incorrect too. The refurb units only come with 12 months warranty, whereas a replacement refurbished unit supplied to you under warranty will retain the remainder of the original 2 year warranty so you're not comparing like for like.

Just because something fails within the first six months, does not necessarily mean it was not fit for purpose, and even if you successfully argued that was indeed the case, an offer of a free, fully functioning replacement by the manufacturer retaining the original warranty would be seen by most reasonable people as an effective and acceptable solution to your problem.
 
Cynar said:
If yours fails, they collect it and replace it with a fully functioning unit at nil cost to you.
You don't even have to set foot outside your door and there's no waiting for a repair.
Click to expand...

Sorry but not always. I had to take a whole day off work but when the courier arrived he did not have a replacement. I phoned Humax and was told that there was no 'exchange' because they did not have any HDR-FOX T2 1TB in stock so it will either be replaced or repaired. They could not provide any estimate of when that would be. I said to Humax that I was disappointed not to be told in advance that there would be no replacement - the guy didn't say anything to that and seemed disinterested. I am now waiting for a call re a replacement or repair since last Friday 28th October.

Steve
 
Cynar said:
I still think the Humax warranty exchange is fabulous.
...
I think your assertion that the replacement is only worth 75% of what you paid is incorrect too.
...
Just because something fails within the first six months, does not necessarily mean it was not fit for purpose
....
Click to expand...
You are of course entitled to your opinion. I see however that you are not rushing to offer to buy my box at full price, just to tell me what you think I should do.

The point about the comparison is quite simple: if I had wanted a refurbished box, I could have bought one at 75% of the price. I paid the full price for a NEW one only four months ago, and I therefore have the reasonable right to expect that any replacement in the first 6 months would be like for like, i.e. NEW, not REFURBISHED. If you don't, then clearly you have more money to burn than sense.

And finally, you are simply wrong on your last point: if a failure occurs during the first 6 months the law assumes that it was present at the time of purchase. The supplier, i.e. the retailer, would have to PROVE otherwise. And what box with a faulty power supply at the time of sale could be said to be either of satisfactory quality, or fit for purpose? See the link to Which above.

The overall point is also quite simple: The law provides you with certain rights; any manufacturer's warranty is ordinarily a bonus. In this case, I choose to have my money refunded and buy a new one instead of availing myself of the 'fabulous' warranty, because that way I'll know where I stand. You wouldn't.

You have a rose-tinted view of this warranty process coloured by your 'parents' (not even your own) experience. As you will see from Skind56's experience, everything in life is not always quite so 'fabulous'. That's called wisdom.
 
skind56 said:
Sorry but not always. I had to take a whole day off work but when the courier arrived he did not have a replacement. I phoned Humax and was told that there was no 'exchange' because they did not have any HDR-FOX T2 1TB in stock so it will either be replaced or repaired. They could not provide any estimate of when that would be. I said to Humax that I was disappointed not to be told in advance that there would be no replacement - the guy didn't say anything to that and seemed disinterested. I am now waiting for a call re a replacement or repair since last Friday 28th October.
Click to expand...

More bad news.
I received the same box back on Friday 4th November but was unable to test until today. After 20 minutes of watching the TV Portal (iplayer) the box froze for 2 minutes, i.e. the same symptoms as why I had returned the box. At the end of the program it froze again when trying to exit the portal - this coincided with a recording that had the last 2 minutes cut off at the end! It would appear that nothing has been done to fix the problem. My previous recordings remained on the box. I will, once again, be in contact with Humax to ask for an explanation. My patience is running out.

Steve
 
Steve,
I am really sorry to hear about your experience :(, though, sadly, not entirely surprised. I have nothing against Humax, or their products, or even that much against their Direct Sales outlet. But, as you have experienced, things can and do go wrong, and the so-called 'fabulous' warranty process then leaves more than a little to be desired; which was really the point of this thread - to remind people that, in the first 6 months at least, if the box is faulty, you have the right, if you so choose, to have your money refunded, and start again.
Who knows what you'll get back under the exchange? Perhaps it'll be perfect; perhaps it won't; perhaps it'll be your own box back again unrepaired!
The Direct Sales people ignored my first two communications. They didn't ignore the third one that had 'Do not delay opening - Legal action pending' written on the envellope. My faulty box will be collected for a FULL refund this coming Wed 16th.
(Note for Black Hole: I won't forget to log the serial number and fault history before I return it either).
 
just for info - all white goods in Europe have an automatic 5 year warranty.
This is legally enforcable.
The law is based on the notion that goods sold should have a reasonable life expectancy. For white
goods the european courts deemed 5 years to be acceptable.

Manufacturers are required to replace like for like OR provide a cash refund based on the amount
of use (time) the goods have had so far.
 
jack616 said:
just for info - all white goods in Europe have an automatic 5 year warranty.
This is legally enforcable.
The law is based on the notion that goods sold should have a reasonable life expectancy. For white
goods the european courts deemed 5 years to be acceptable.

Manufacturers are required to replace like for like OR provide a cash refund based on the amount
of use (time) the goods have had so far.
Click to expand...

Not true as the UK Sale Of Goods Act offers more protection then only the UK Sale OF Goods act can be used in the UK as a basis to claim on. A UK consumer has no claim whatsoever on a manufacturer (they aren't legally obliged to offer any warranty at all), only against the retailer who sold the goods in the first place. It's false claim you see quite often. Ask your local trading standards department.
 
Sorry graham I should have said (to clarify) the seller is the person responsible for the 5 year warranty - (as people were talking about buying direct from Humax I perhaps should have made that clearer)
Appart from that my post is correct.
So for example if I buy a Fridge from Curry's and 3 years later it stops working - curry's are responsible in law for 2 years worth of whatever I paid for it.
That can be like for like or cash refund. The replacement/refund must also be provided without expense or inconvenience to myself (also written as law)

Thats how it works.
 
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