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HDD or Tuner on blink?

J

Jeddy

Member
Hi,
I'm having problems with 4000 (6 years old) which sometimes pixelates, temporarily freezes etc. This happens on recordings and live TV. Watching TV directly (using TV tuner which is last in RF chain) seems fine suggesting something on the PVR.
I've done a manual retune choosing the HD channel and selecting Channel Tune and it correctly seems to only search the other channels I'd expect for our region.
Checking the signal quality shows 100% but drops to 0% if it has problems for a second or two.
I guess the next check is the HDD? I see suggetion to use Crystal Diskinfo (if I have a suitable adapter). However I've downloaded and installed it and am slightly confused. How do you use it? There doesn't seem to be an option to 'Start' or whatever. How do you use it?
Or does the signal quality drop suggest the problem really is the tuner?
Thanks
 
Which version did you download? There is a "portable" version where you download a zip, unpack the zip, and then just double-click the .exe to run it, or an "installable" version where you double-click the installer .exe and that fetches and installs the executable into your Windows system folder (I prefer the former, it makes less of a mess).

If you've done the latter then just open your start menu and start typing "crystal" in the search bar - that should find it.

There seems to be plenty of information available on Crystal's About page - see "manual".
 
Thanks for the reply. I downloaded Standard Edition, Installer (Vista-) which then installed on my W11 PC. It looks like I should click 'All'.
Having said which, I'm not sure if my edit to the above makes a difference? Namely I added 'Checking the signal quality shows 100% but drops to 0% if it has problems for a second or two.'
 
Jeddy said:
It looks like I should click 'All'.
Click to expand...
Click "all" where? How about a screen shot 'cos I have no idea what you're referring to. With the portable version, I just click the appropriate .exe (32-bit or 64-bit, but the 32-bit version should work everywhere). Having done so it launches after the system requests admin credentials (maybe that is what you're not seeing - it might be hidden on the desktop).

Once launched it presents the SMART stats for the first drive it finds, choose which you want on the Disk menu.

Jeddy said:
Having said which, I'm not sure if my edit to the above makes a difference? Namely I added 'Checking the signal quality shows 100% but drops to 0% if it has problems for a second or two.'
Click to expand...
That indicates signal problems.
 
So if I have a signal problem with the PVR while ordinary TV is ok, there is little point in checking the HDD?
Last week Dragons Den started breaking up half way through while we were watching live through the 4000, so I changed to using the TV tuner and we watched the end from that and it was fine. I've just checked the recording after where we had problem and the recording is pixelating etc.. The RF input from the TV is connected to the RF output from the PVR (unsurprisingly).
 
Jeddy said:
So if I have a signal problem with the PVR while ordinary TV is ok, there is little point in checking the HDD?
Click to expand...
It could be the recording of the time shift buffer or perhaps your signal strength is too high. What is the signal strength?
 
My experience (and I guess the majority of experience on the forum) is with HDR-FOX, which of course we can dig into whereas we can't on an FVP-4000T. Experience says that the HDR-FOX can throw up picture wobblies if the HDD is dicky, probably due to the additional workload imposed by data retries.

In any case, the SMART stats give you a view of the health of the HDD hardware, not the health of the file system (which is equally important). If you're getting the SMART data, you also need to run a file system check, and that needs to be done in Linux.

That your TV tuner downstream of the Humax presents a good picture means little. The TV and the Humax may have different sensitivities, selectivities, and headrooms. What is an insufficient signal for the Humax may be perfectly OK for the TV, particularly after being boosted through the Humax. The noise floor might be too great for the Humax. The signal might be over-driving the Humax. The signal and quality figures will provide a clue.

Edit: Intended, but forgot, to mention the possibility of local interference. Running the microwave, for example, or radiation from the HDMI lead if there is inadequate screening in the HDMI or aerial leads or inadequate separation.
 
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Black Hole said:
That your TV tuner downstream of the Humax presents a good picture means little. The TV and the Humax may have different sensitivities, selectivities, and headrooms. What is an insufficient signal for the Humax may be perfectly OK for the TV, particularly after being boosted through the Humax. The noise floor might be too great for the Humax. The signal might be over-driving the Humax. The signal and quality figures will provide a clue.
Click to expand...

Jeddy said:
Checking the signal quality shows 100% but drops to 0% if it has problems for a second or two.
Click to expand...

Sometimes a sign of a signal is too strong for the tuners being used which leads to the question ....
Jeddy said:
The RF input from the TV is connected to the RF output from the PVR (unsurprisingly).
Click to expand...
Why "unsurprisingly"?
 
Currently the 4000 is giving me 100% strength and quality on tuner 1 and 98% and 100% on tuner2. I have a signal booster in the loft - I was only getting 70% signal (and IIRC 100% quaity) without that, but still having the same problems (which is why I installed it!). I may be able to turn the gain down, but if it isn't working at 70% and isn't working at 100%... although I guess one could be too little and the other too much? (Having said which, my knee is currently crook so I can't currently get into the loft let alone crawl to the booster).

Is there any guidance to running the file system check in linux (I can create a bootable linux USB drive, but struggle with linux).

'Unsurprisingly' because most TVs don't have an RF output, so the TV is 'always' going to be the last in the RF chain.
 
Jeddy said:
I was only getting 70% signal
Click to expand...
70% of what? You'd probably have been better off buying a variable attenuator and then you could see how much above threshold the signal is.

If the quality drops to 0% then it isn't the hard disk. It's either the tuner in the box itself or something upstream. If you have a clear path from the TX to your aerial then the aerial or the cable or fly-leads etc.
 
I recall having a problem with one of the temporary muxes on my 5000T. If I watched the signal strength/quality meter they would both drop to zero, recover for a while, and do it again. At the time I could try the box in a different location fed from a different aerial. The box performed properly. I never did get to the bottom of the problem but did find nearby equipment and cable routing made a difference. It's a couple of years since I last had that problem - but moving house complicates the problem! The 5000T still works properly (well, sort of), so not a disk problem. Therefore I'd endorse prpr's view in the previous post.
 
Jeddy said:
Currently the 4000 is giving me 100% strength and quality on tuner 1 and 98% and 100% on tuner2. I have a signal booster in the loft - I was only getting 70% signal (and IIRC 100% quaity) without that, but still having the same problems (which is why I installed it!). I may be able to turn the gain down, but if it isn't working at 70% and isn't working at 100%... although I guess one could be too little and the other too much?
Click to expand...
Experience indicates 70% is far from "too little", but we have no calibration for this so it's hard to be sure. I run perfectly well on "30%". Different equipment might have different calibration, and I would much prefer the industry hadn't dumbed it down for Joe Public and instead expressed it in microvolts.

100% might not be "too much", but the problem is this: the strength indicator maxes out at 100% even if the signal is actually 200%. If quality is solidly 100% then you're OK (I suppose), but I would be nervous about where the needle on the strength gauge should really be pointing.

Black Hole said:
Edit: Intended, but forgot, to mention the possibility of local interference. Running the microwave, for example, or radiation from the HDMI lead if there is inadequate screening in the HDMI or aerial leads or inadequate separation.
Click to expand...
 
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Re '70% of what' to clarify, when I refer to 70% and 100% signal strength I am using the Signal Test on the box itself - similar with quality. I have no knowledge of what this is 70% of - whatever Humax have decided it is 70% strength of.
The aerial leads go from the loft through walls (i.e. out of reach) and out through a wall plate. I have replaced the cables from there to the box with brand new, hopefully decent Quality TV Aerial Lead - Male to Male 24k Gold Plugs from cables4all, so they should be good. That lead goes into the 4000. Another lead then goes to a Fox (almost unused) and then to the TV.

The only other thoughts are that the problem is very erratic. However it appears to be most common mid-eve (e.g. Dragons Den). Trying to look for a connection with something, the only thing I can think of is that mid-eve is the most common time that I am recording multiple programs, so could the problem be the second tuner etc.? Yes, it has just occurred to me that it would be useful to check if when I have a problem at e.g. 20:35 on one recording whether I also have a problem on another recording - slightly tricky since recordings don't always start exactly on time, but if one recording is good while another has problems, would that suggest one tuner?
 
Jeddy said:
if one recording is good while another has problems, would that suggest one tuner?
Click to expand...
Not necessarily, because if different tuners are in use they are also tuned to different muxes.

The HDR-FOX service menu offers an option to perform signal tests on individual tuners, the same might be true of FVP-4000T.
 
Black Hole said:
The HDR-FOX service menu offers an option to perform signal tests on individual tuners, the same might be true of FVP-4000T.
Click to expand...
As far as I can see there is only one signal test option. It shows the current state of all three tuners.
I've noticed that tuners 1 and 2 usually show the same signal strength for a particular mux, but tuner 3 is a bit weaker. (Although this did not cause the problem identified in my previous post)
Black Hole said:
I run perfectly well on "30%
Click to expand...
So do I, but only on the local mux. Any other mux and it's hit and miss.
 
Well that's interesting. Again, Thurs I started getting problems while watching Dragons Den (it was being recorded but I was watching about 10mins delayed). Problems started about 40mins into the prog (i.e. would have been 20:40ish and continued to the end of the recording - occasional break-ups, pixelation etc.). A signal test (Humax test) at 20:50 real time showed between 96% and 100% strength in this order on channels 32 (BBC SD etc.), 35 (HD), 36 (Quest etc.) and 100% quality. When I went to watch the recording of Tonight (ITV HD) that also started having problems around 10mins in (i.e. recorded at 20:40). We then started to watch The Apprentice (started 21:00 on BBC1 HD) - again chasing the recording, but gave up about 5mins in due to so many break ups. This time Quest HD Fifth Gear Recharged was being recorded at the same time, that later played perfectly (signal test still showed channel order 32, 35, 36).
I think someone mentioned above that if I get problems live as I have had, then it ain't the disk. Also that one recording (Fifth Gear) was perfect while another recording at the same time was unwatchable suggests similar?
This is now pointing to either HD or one of the receivers? (Although I'm not sure all the problems have been on HD.)
I noted that the signal test showed channels 32, 35, 36 in that order. A quick tests suggests the number order is significant, i.e. watching BBC1 HD now and recording BBC1 SD now shows tuner1 35 and tuner 2 ch 32 so they aren't in number order.
Although I'm currently recreating and signal test is showing channels 32, 35, 36 but I'm not seeing any break-ups on 35 (HD).
I can't think of any external factors (both in lounge, so no microwaves etc..), no-one moving any cables etc..
The joys of trying to diagnose an erratic problem.
 
I just read all your posts and replies with interest. I have an FVP-5000T which started playing up a long time ago. I used to get recorded programmes and live programmes which were heavily pixelated and messages about lack of signal strength. I was told by someone on this forum that it could be something to do with the wifi and I should retune etc. This did not make any difference. I also had an aerial engineer look at my connections and he said they were ok. I was also told that signal strength should be 70% and quality 100% ideally. Anyway , after much frustration I had another idea and recorded a number of programmes both in HD and SD. All the SD recordings were fine but some of the HD ones were pixelated. Hence , I now record everything in SD. This may or may not help you. By the way, I am not au fait with all the jargon and tech terms in the replies you have received.
 
Had the same problem of pic breakup and freezing start on my 5000 recently. Sig and quality 100% before and now so perhaps overload? I have an aerial amp as I combine 2 aerials so have removed the amp and sig down to 85-95% with quality 100%. I'll see if the problem clears.
 
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