HDMI blanking randomly UKTV channels 5000T

[EEPhil]

I mention this, not expecting a viable solution, but as a point of reference if anyone else has this problem.

My 5000T is usually connected via an HDMI cable to the one HDMI port on a cheap Bush HD ready TV. I use the 5000T's tuner and the TV is essentially a monitor.
Recently (this week) problems have been occurring whilst watching Dave (mainly, but I've noticed similar on Drama and W). At random times the picture blanks. Looking more closely I see that the TV then puts up a message about the connection (HDMI, frame rate, resolution etc). This happens every time the picture blanks, which is often!
My guess is the HDMI connection keeps getting disconnected in some way. So far I've not noticed the same problem on other channels either on the same multiplex as Dave or generally. I've substituted a different TV (Samsung) and the same blanking occurs. I've also tried a different HDMI cable. If I watch and record a programme from Dave then when I play back the blanking is in the exact same place. Again my guess is that something in the Dave data stream is upsetting the HDMI connection. For reasons I can't fathom it wouldn't show up on the DLNA server so I couldn't stream it to the 2000T to see what happened. If I take the recording and download it to my laptop it plays without blanking. If I run it through VideoReDo there are no blank frames. If I fast frame convert to mpg and upload to the 5000T, no problems.
I then connected my 2000T via HDMI to the Bush TV. No current problems watching Dave. I've connected my 5000T via RCA connectors to the Bush TV, no problems watching Dave. Now it could be that the HDMI gubbins in the 5000T is shot - but surely that would cause a problem on all channels.
I'd like to put the 5000T back on the HDMI connection as the picture quality*, even for StdDef, is much better than the AV connection - but blanking every few seconds is a pain. (*especially on the EPG, menus etc).

Another reason for suspecting a UKTV problem is that I have been noticing sound glitches on only UKTV channels (a bit like a click on old vinyl disks) for a while. Wouldn't surprise me if some of their equipment is duff. This problem occurs on all my equipment (TV tuners, TV dongle, Humaxes).

For now I'll make do with the AV connection solution and possibly watch "live" using the 2000T instead.
If anyone else notices a similar problem please post here - it would be useful to know whether it is a UKTV and/or Humax software problem or a failing HDMI unit.

 

[Rodders53]

Only way to get a chance of a fix is to report the problems to the broadcasters.

These channels probably pay someone good money to ingest and then play out their content and would expect such things to rarely, if ever, happen. Their management will kick the appropriate people I'd hope

 

[YorkshiremanII]

I mention this, not expecting a viable solution, but as a point of reference if anyone else has this problem.

My 5000T is usually connected via an HDMI cable to the one HDMI port on a cheap Bush HD ready TV. I use the 5000T's tuner and the TV is essentially a monitor.
Recently (this week) problems have been occurring whilst watching Dave (mainly, but I've noticed similar on Drama and W). At random times the picture blanks. Looking more closely I see that the TV then puts up a message about the connection (HDMI, frame rate, resolution etc). This happens every time the picture blanks, which is often!
My guess is the HDMI connection keeps getting disconnected in some way. So far I've not noticed the same problem on other channels either on the same multiplex as Dave or generally. I've substituted a different TV (Samsung) and the same blanking occurs. I've also tried a different HDMI cable. If I watch and record a programme from Dave then when I play back the blanking is in the exact same place. Again my guess is that something in the Dave data stream is upsetting the HDMI connection. For reasons I can't fathom it wouldn't show up on the DLNA server so I couldn't stream it to the 2000T to see what happened. If I take the recording and download it to my laptop it plays without blanking. If I run it through VideoReDo there are no blank frames. If I fast frame convert to mpg and upload to the 5000T, no problems.
I then connected my 2000T via HDMI to the Bush TV. No current problems watching Dave. I've connected my 5000T via RCA connectors to the Bush TV, no problems watching Dave. Now it could be that the HDMI gubbins in the 5000T is shot - but surely that would cause a problem on all channels.
I'd like to put the 5000T back on the HDMI connection as the picture quality*, even for StdDef, is much better than the AV connection - but blanking every few seconds is a pain. (*especially on the EPG, menus etc).

Another reason for suspecting a UKTV problem is that I have been noticing sound glitches on only UKTV channels (a bit like a click on old vinyl disks) for a while. Wouldn't surprise me if some of their equipment is duff. This problem occurs on all my equipment (TV tuners, TV dongle, Humaxes).

…..

I’m just browsing anything to do with fvp5000 because our pair of HDR recorders are dying, and this caught my eye because we’ve noticed these channels doing exactly this. Since one of the forced retunes was imposed last year.

Makes these channels unwatchable at times.

 

[MartinLiddle]

I’m just browsing anything to do with fvp5000 because our pair of HDR recorders are dying, and this caught my eye because we’ve noticed these channels doing exactly this. Since one of the forced retunes was imposed last year.

You might want to describe what the symptoms of the failing recorders are and which transmitter you receive from.

 

[prpr]

we’ve noticed these channels doing exactly this. Since one of the forced retunes was imposed last year.

Makes these channels unwatchable at times.

So what does that tell you? That it may be tuned to the wrong transmitter for one or more muxes.?
Of course nobody ever does any proper investigation into what they should be, or which channels (and therefore muxes) are affected, or report what the box says it's doing (presumably it can do that?).

describe what the symptoms of the failing recorders are

What, you mean "dying" isn't enough of a description?

Vagueness rules.

 

[EEPhil]

Of course nobody ever does any proper investigation into what they should be, or which channels (and therefore muxes) are affected, or report what the box says it's doing (presumably it can do that?).

Nobody?
I suspect for most of the longer serving forum members this would be the first option that comes to mind. Probably!

Vagueness rules.

Often a problem on forums.

 

[Black Hole]

Looking more closely I see that the TV then puts up a message about the connection (HDMI, frame rate, resolution etc). This happens every time the picture blanks, which is often!
My guess is the HDMI connection keeps getting disconnected in some way.

Is it perhaps characteristic of the 5000T to drop the HDMI link in the event of a video decode fault? That would lead to a longer interruption while the HDMI re-establishes. I can't say I've noticed anything similar on HDR-FOX.

I then connected my 2000T via HDMI to the Bush TV. No current problems watching Dave. I've connected my 5000T via RCA connectors to the Bush TV, no problems watching Dave.

Very much localising the problem to FVP-5000T. Some kind of data error might upset an HDMI link but go unnoticed on an analogue connection. Anybody got an FVP-4000T?

So far I've not noticed the same problem on other channels either on the same multiplex as Dave or generally.

This indicates a hiccup in a specific stream rather than any kind of break in reception...

If I watch and record a programme from Dave then when I play back the blanking is in the exact same place... If I take the recording and download it to my laptop it plays without blanking.

Suggesting the 5000T decoder isn't very robust.

It seems clear to me, in the absence of other data, that this is a defect in the 5000T which gets triggered by some data pattern which happens to occur on Dave. Guess: an on-the-fly video format change? There are plenty of changes on services carrying commercials anyway, I don't know what might be particularly funny about Dave.

If this hypothesis is correct, then all 5000Ts should behave the same way.

Vagueness rules.

this caught my eye because we’ve noticed these channels doing exactly this.

Isn't that specific enough?! Why re-write what is already written.

I’m just browsing anything to do with fvp5000 because our pair of HDR recorders are dying

Mixed messages. Do you mean you have a pair of FVP-5000Ts which are "dying", or that you have a pair of "HDRs" (whatever they might be) and are (for some reason) browsing anything to do with the FVP-5000T?

I presume the former, in which case PVR (Personal Video Recorder) is what you mean, not HDR (a character string used as a prefix for some models of Humax PVR, "HD" referring to HiDef TV, not including FVP-5000T).

Presuming the former, and presuming my hypothesis is correct, then is "dying" confined to these symptoms only? If so, its a bug rather than a forecast of imminent expiry. The bug could be in the Dave data stream, but in as much as the bug only seems to affect the video decoder in the FVP-5000T it seems more likely that it's just the 5000T throwing a wobbly.

In my opinion, this is something for Humax and Dave to get their heads together on. It isn't like we've never seen anything similar, remember when there were problems recording BBC THREE (IIRC)?

 

[YorkshiremanII]

Woah!
I seem to have created a small firestorm here. I'm appreciative of all the good intentions behind the posts though.

EEPhil started by saying
"I mention this, not expecting a viable solution, but as a point of reference if anyone else has this problem."

and I have this problem, so I thought I'd mention it, to be a bit supportive of the OP. The only aim was to say 'me too' as far as the original post mentioning picture blanking was concerned. Wasn't expecting to need more explanation, as I purposely didn't go into more detail.


I'm a mere dabbler at the innards of the CF, greatly appreciative of the time and effort that others have put into providing such a great resource, and the amount of knowledge here.
I also, whilst browsing, found the link to, and explanation of, the transmitter quality page and how to tune manually.

In response to Martin's query. We have 2 off HDR Fox T2 which have done good service for over 10 years. When an attack of 'green screen' hit us on both of them just before Christmas, I read the notes about HDMI handshakes being a likely cause, and they are useable now, if TV and HDR are started from cold in the right sequence (Like stating a Boeing, I tell the family - do things in the right order.
Equipped with new found knowledge about tuning, when I have the time to attend to them, I'll work my way through all of that, documenting as I go, and see if that improves things.
The other 'symptom' which happens is that the recorder(s) will freeze, becoming unresponsive to all means of access, always when a recording is involved. When the box is eventually turned off a 3 or 4Gb recording exists. The desired programme is at the start, so can be watched, and the file deleted.

I was considering finding new HDR FoxT2's on ebay, even if needing a disk transplant, but as we don't watch any streamed stuff, and I've never bottomed out linking the 2 devices with Fox Link, I was considering just buying new box(es) and abiding by the instructions, but I now find that the FVP range has some issues and the Aura seems devoted to streaming services, but they are changing quicker than it can keep up (or something) With no especial desire to use any of the streaming services, and more material to watch than we have time for, I'm even more inclined to find another HDR box and stay with the simple life of record summat, watch it later. Enough. Job done.
Mind, I may be back when I get into the tuning issue, so thank everyone for all that good information.

 

[Black Hole]

and I have this problem, so I thought I'd mention it, to be a bit supportive of the OP.

Woah to you too. Please be explicit: is "this problem" on HDR-FOX or FVP-5000T? Without that basic information, we can't know where the datapoint belongs. If you're saying it's the HDR-FOX having problems with UKTV services it's the first I've heard about it.

Regardless, this is not a "firestorm", it's a lively debate. That's how we come to a consensus (or not) on how to proceed.

When an attack of 'green screen' hit us on both of them just before Christmas...

I was considering finding new HDR FoxT2's on ebay

Do that. There are indications that changing the loader version affects the HDMI, but nothing concrete and green-screen issues tend to be permanent.

I've never bottomed out linking the 2 devices with Fox Link

The foxlink package is designed to make content sharing from a HDR-FOX to a HD-FOX easy, it can't handle two-way sharing. But it's not difficult, I/we can help with that.

 

[EEPhil]

EEPhil started by saying
"I mention this, not expecting a viable solution, but as a point of reference if anyone else has this problem."

Don’t take a lot of notice of me. I’m a sad old f@&£ at the best of times. I relay stuff sometimes because it is relevant- or seems it to me. Some stuff I do know about - 2000T and 5000T foibles. Take with large helping of NaCl.

 

[MartinLiddle]

Do that. There are indications that changing the loader version affects the HDMI, but nothing concrete and green-screen issues tend to be permanent.

I think the evidence that changing loader works is slim and all the recent cases where I have tried to help people have resulted in no improvement with any loader version.

 

[YorkshiremanII]

Woah to you too. Please be explicit: is "this problem" on HDR-FOX or FVP-5000T? Without that basic information, we can't know where the datapoint belongs. If you're saying it's the HDR-FOX having problems with UKTV services it's the first I've heard about it.

Regardless, this is not a "firestorm", it's a lively debate. That's how we come to a consensus (or not) on how to proceed.


Do that. There are indications that changing the loader version affects the HDMI, but nothing concrete and green-screen issues tend to be permanent.


The foxlink package is designed to make content sharing from a HDR-FOX to a HD-FOX easy, it can't handle two-way sharing. But it's not difficult, I/we can help with that.

I see 'the problem' via the HDR FoxT2 - but I haven't regarded it as a 'problem' because I haven't enough data points. It's more of 'an irritation' Hence me reporting rather than asking for help.
'Firestorm' is just me writing for dramatic effect - sorry - habit - training - screenplay. Must do better.

So, to be clear. I greatly appreciate the collected knowledge and helpfulness of everyone, but for the moment I'm beyond help (dramatic interjection again)