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HDMI problems

Discussion in 'HDR-FOX T2 Freeview Recorder' started by mightyoakbob, Mar 1, 2012.

  1. mightyoakbob

    mightyoakbob Member

    Hi,
    I'm new here, only had my HDR FOX T2 a couple of days.

    I have a problem with HDMI. When I configured the box from new I set it to output 1080P to the TV like my Bluray players. I noticed that the picture wasn't that great and that it was vertically stretched so much of the picture was off the top and bottom of the screen. The connection was actually working at 576i. I stepped throught the settings with the V button but it stopped at 1080i. I would be happy with that except that I know the BBC do broadcast 1080P25 sometimes and I don't know if leaving the at 1080i would be OK for that.

    Any advice appreciated.

    Incidentally, I contacted Humax about this and they asked me the software version and then proclaimed that my TV was faulty. I tried to say but hang on, my Oppo Bluray, Panasonic Bluray and Sky box all work fine but the guy wouldn't even let me finish the sentence and insisted my TV was faulty. To be honest, although he was calling me Sir continuously, I thought him unhelpful and quite rude.

    Cheers,

    Bob.
     
  2. fattakin

    fattakin Member

    I only have an old 720p set and the 720p setting looked off to me so i ended up using 1080i. yet my Xbox looks amazing at 720p on it. So who knows what they are at :)
     
  3. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felinos Guru

    We have learned from experience that different manufacturers have different ideas of what the HDMI "standard" means, so nothing surprises me.

    There is no harm in leaving your Humax output at 1080i if that's what works, it conveys the same amount of information as 1080p25 just in a different order. The TV should make up for that no problem.
     
  4. ChrisDaniels

    ChrisDaniels Well-Known Member

    Is the TV Full HD? or just HD Ready?
    Setting the box at 1080p should not look the same as 576i, so i'm confused as to how you know it was actually working at 576i? Did the TV display that? If it did and the box was set to 1080p, then i'd agree with Humax that the TV is at fault.

    If your TV is only HD Ready as opposed to Full HD, setting the box to 1080p would mean that the TV would need to downscale the picture (loose quality as the extra pixels need to be dumped).

    Likewise, setting it to 576i would cause the TV to upscale it (in most cases) to its native resolution of 720p. If your TVs scaler is a bit ropey, this will introduce noise into the picture which can make it look worse in some cases as it needs to fill in the blanks with something.
     
  5. mightyoakbob

    mightyoakbob Member

    Thanks to everyone who has tried to help me this morning.

    Now your questions.

    The TV is a sony KDL46W4000 about 3 years old. The set works with full 1080P connections from two Bluray players and 1080i from Sky. I'm sure it is a full HD set thought it doesn't have a T2 tuner. When you select an input the tv tells you the connection information and for the BD players it says 1080P and never had a problem. I therefore set the Humax to 1080P but the tv image was streched vertically and when trying to reconnect I noticed it said 576i. Pressing the V (whatever) button I managed to get it up to 1080i but the humax refused to step further no matter how long or in what manner I pressed the button.

    I'm not saying the TV isn't faulty, I don't know where the fault lies but the logic of it being the tv escapes me. I don't understand why, if the tv can connect for years with two BD players at 1080P without a single hitch, how it can be the tv that's faulty if the Humax cannot do the same thing with the same input on the same TV. Actually, it was the same HDMI lead as I simply swapped it tempoarily. Clearly, the Humax is outputting something different from the two BD players when set to 1080P and for my mind that is the only thing I know for certain.

    I would just forget it and leave it at 1080i but I'm slightly bothered as to why i'm getting this, is it because it's a manager special? Also I agree with Black Hole the amount of data is the same if the broadcast goes to 1080P25 but the BBC do it because they think it suites some material better than others so presumably I don't get the advantage of the 1080p25 however slight that may be.

    Thanks again for everyone's help.

    Bob.
     
  6. ChrisDaniels

    ChrisDaniels Well-Known Member

    Just did a quick google search and your set is indeed Full HD.
    There have been previous posts about people having issues with HDMI with particular sets, so it might be a case that yours falls into the bunch that doesnt quite work 100% with the box. Are you on the latest firmware for the box? I noticed there are no updates for the TV on Sony's site.

    I would try a different HDMI port on the tv and reset the box just to see if it still behaves in this way.
    If it does, then it could be either the set or the box at fault.
     
  7. Toyboy

    Toyboy New Member

    Based on good previous experience with this box I just bought a 2nd HDR-T2 which connects to a Pioneer 504HD 50" Plasma TV - except via HDMI that is ! e-mailed this to Humax support >

    I received a new HDR-FOX T2 Freeview box a few days ago, all channels downloaded and stored OK with good quality signal on all channels. But after initial set-up I now cannot get any output from the HDMI port. Tried a restart and I get a picture via HDMI works on initial power up with Humax Logo but then goes blank. TV is Pioneer 504HD 50” with single HDMI input. I have an existing HDR-T2 which works perfectly on my main TV, Pioneer KRP600 60” Plasma.

    I am using the same HDMI cable from my SKY HD box and just moving it to the T2 HDMI port. I tried my existing T2 box to the same TV via same cable and did not get this problem. Other equipment, i.e. Technomate TM7100 and Pioneer 868i DVD player all work fine using the same cable to the same 504HD TV HDMI input.

    I get a picture via RF and SCART but as soon as HDMI cable is connected the sound on both of those has silence gaps every second or 2. With only HDMI connected, I get no picture or sound. I have tried several HDMI, aerial and SCART cables but no difference.

    Based on these tests I returned the unit to the dealer as faulty, however after testing it they reported no fault found ! Today I re-connected my existing T2 box to the 504HD TV and the problem now appears on that too ! It still works fine on my main TV where it’s normally connected.

    I didn’t try the new box on the KRP600 as other equipment Sky HD box etc. worked OK to the 504HD TV.

    I have an extensive and very expensive home cinema and Hi-FI system so this is very basic to me.

    I would like to buy another HDR-T2 but not until this is resolved.

    Any suggestions anyone ?
     
  8. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felinos Guru

    I sympathise, but actually you don't know whether to blame the Humax or the Pioneer.
     
  9. Toyboy

    Toyboy New Member

    I think I do given that every other HDMI device I own works with the Pioneer - looks like a Humax HDMI compatibility problem.
     
  10. 4291

    4291 Well-Known Member

    Give it a go.
     
  11. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felinos Guru

    Not so. HDMI is a complex "standard" which is not universally interpreted in the same way - and no guarantee that one interpretation is more correct than any other. Unless you have verification testgear that can demonstrate categorically that the Pioneer is responding to specification and the Humax is not, then you have no basis on which to make an assertion. Chances are that even if you did have the testgear, both ends would pass.

    In a case such as this, I'm afraid it's "buyer beware" and you have to rely on the good will of the retailer to take it back if not suitable for your purpose.
     
  12. Toyboy

    Toyboy New Member

    Apart from T2 returned to supplier there's no point, my existing T2 works with the KRP600 but not with the 504HD, logical to assume the new one would be exactly the same - I will ask Pioneer and Humax support tomorrow - there can be only one - at fault.
     
  13. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felinos Guru

    Or indeed neither.
     
  14. Toyboy

    Toyboy New Member

    Basic HDMI functionality is expected, plug 'n play, should give me a picture and sound regardless of higher layer encryption protocols intended for encrypted channels or whatever. Buyer should not have to 'be aware' or worry about whether basic connections will work or not! If Humax interpret HDMI standards different to everyone else then it's their problem, not everyone else's. Searching around it seems I'm not the only one having problems with Humax HDMI compatibility.
     
  15. RapsterUK

    RapsterUK Member

    Is your television a 504HD or 504HDE?

    The only Pioneer TV I can find with '504' in its title is the 'PDP-504HDE'.
     
  16. Black Hole

    Black Hole Felinos Guru

    I don't want to drag this on but I must try to dispell this notion. I'm not saying it's the case one way or another, but suppose Humax were the first to interpret and implement the HDMI specification correctly, and everyone else was using a misinterpretation or had not implemented some aspect of the specification that Humax then relies on. That does not make it Humax's fault, it would be a fault of the HDMI standards organisation for not rigorously enforcing compliance to the standard, and often it is the fault of the standards organisation for modifying the standard to suit one member or another without adequately considering the effect the change will have on existing manufactured equipment or other members.

    This is the reason different manufacturers sometimes have different names for essentially same thing - they can use it to interconnect their own equipment and do sufficient testing to ensure it works within their own range, but do not then claim conformity to some universal standard or guarantee interoperability with other manufacturers (who are using their own flavour of a similar thing) - although it may work in practice.

    HDMI works when it works, and doesn't when it doesn't. If you are sure there is no actual hardware fault and yet the HDMI doesn't work between equipment A and equipment B, tough. If equipment A and B both come from the same manufacturer, at least you know who to complain to. If not, complain to the HDMI organisation.

    (before anybody gets uppity, I have earned a living as a test engineer in standards certification - I do know what I'm talking about)
     
  17. ChrisDaniels

    ChrisDaniels Well-Known Member

    Agreed. The HDMI org should be taken outside and shot.
    Good intentions, bad implementation.
    They dont respond to complaints either.
     
  18. oijonesey

    oijonesey Hummy.tv SEO Guru

    It would be interesting to see if the new box works on your older TV - if nothing else you could put the old box on your new TV then you'd have working boxes on both TV's. But I do sympathise with you - I hate it when supposed 'standards' appear to lull the consumer into thinking that the badge at both ends means it'll just work - then you find out that's not quite the case AND when you try to do something about it some scrote with BO wearing a Monsters of Rock t-shirt* tells you there's nothing wrong with it even though you've shown them a bloody video on your phone of it not working!!!!!!!

    *T-Shirts for other guitar based music festivals are available
     
  19. fattakin

    fattakin Member

    I also have 2 niggly HDMI issues but unsure if its my old Philips TV.

    If I turn the TV off but leave the humax on, when I turn the TV back on, it will have blank screen /no signal 4 times out of 5. Sometimes changing channel or changing Input on the TV will wake them up and send whatever hdmi handshake is needed but most times I have to power off / on the Humax.

    Second problem is the 'wail of death' noise if I turn the Humax off while the TV is on. This is the same on both HDR's that I have owned. You can hear it here:

    I've just learned to live with both!
     
  20. ChrisDaniels

    ChrisDaniels Well-Known Member

    I would say thats the Philips at fault. One of my TVs is a Philips and its had the odd HDMI issue too such as half green/half tv image, no image at all etc. but a reboot of both always sorts it out.

    I spoke to an engineer a year or so ago, and he told me Philips were hated in the TV industry for various things such as dodgy firmware, cheap parts etc. Funnily enough, no so long ago they announced they pulling out of the TV business all together.