Installing a Drive Larger Than 2TB - Possible?

[af123]

Possible but I think there could still be problems with AF drives that might require some back-porting of kernel patches... I did find a couple of relevant bugs when I looked at this originally.

 

[af123]

I'm tempted to order an ST4000VM000 (4TB Seagate AV) and give it a go : ) - it's a bit too close to Christmas still though!

 

[jack616]

fao: 'Jack616' - didn't 'JFK' make a speech about landing on the Moon not because it was easy but because it was hard?

Don't get me wrong. I applaud your spirit of adventure - I just wish you'd put that degree of effort into something of more use to the functionality of the box.
(I don't have immediate suggestions but there are issues I think).

If you want to use the analogy:
As for the quote - people are very fond of that one for reasons I don't understand. It's both pointless (doing something just because it's hard is plain daft)
and decieptful - they didnt plan to do it because it was hard - jfk wanted it done because they were very embarrased at soviet space advances and they
were very concerned about gaining any possible military upper hand in space. i.e. They did it for very real practical advantage as they saw it.

What I've always considered odd about that speech is "the other things" that are never discussed.

 

[Des in London]

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FAO: "jack616".......i was pulling your leg my friend, i know you were only warning me that this project would cost me a ridicules amount of time and energy etc. for very little gain/reward - but as Del Boy would say "...he who dares, wins"

I just wish you'd put that degree of effort into something of more use to the functionality of the box.
(I don't have immediate suggestions but there are issues I think).

I suppose i'm quite selfish in that regard as the only functionality that needs sorting (from my perspective) is getting that damn 8TB to work internally.

I'm actually quite happy with the Fox-T2 (with CF) over all the other crap Humax PVR replacements to our FOX-T2 model - especially the bloody awful "1800T & 2000T" boxes, which to me are just useless, slow, and 50% of the time the recordings fail (i'm not exaggerating!). NB. I got rid of both these new boxes and bought several second-hand FOX-T2's to future-proof myself, as there is no way in the world Humax will let us (i mean you tech guys) create a Custom Firmware for any other boxes in the future, as Humax will just insist we're messing with their product!

Anyway back to reality... what other functionality are you missing "jack616" ?? - If i had a better understanding of coding/inputting commands etc, along with my patience and time to sort it, i would create numerous packages for everyone using CF - but alas i'm a mere child when it comes to the knowledge you guys have got.

What is perfection anyway... isn't it subjective? To me the box is almost brilliant using CF but i agree some things could be tweaked. For now though, i need to get the 8TB drive working internally just to prove myself that it can be done (i'm a stubborn sod).

Thanks for listening
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[Des in London]

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As a side topic to my attempt to get an 8TB working i'm also curious about Partition Tables especially 'GUID Partition Table' (GPT)

The custom firmware kernel does have support for large sector disks and GPT/EFI partition tables enabled but the stock firmware doesn't.

Apologies for my ignorance (again) but after seeing this from 'af123' i took the liberty to seek out the CF Release Notes for 'CF 3.00 (01.07.2014)' and it quotes....

"New custom OS kernel with support for:"

• Large block devices;
• EFI Partition tables;

...so does this mean i can format an external (usb) HDD (say a 1TB HDD for example) with options GPT Ext3? or have i completely misunderstood the quote, and even with CF installed, the Linux kernel still won't support disks with GPT?

I only ask this because another previous quote i've also found says it wasn't possible, BUT there was no mention they were using the updated CF firmware, or even CF at all !!!

I read this thread with great interest as I was seeking information on using a 4TB USB disk with my HDR-FOX T2.

Using a WD MyBook 4TB USB drive, I formatted using EaseUS Partition Master - with options MBR EXT3.
Connecting to the HDR-FOX T2 , the disk was loaded with the full 4TB as free.
Copying files from the HDD to the 4TB was as normal.
As expected, the same disk formatted with options GPT EXT3 did not work.

thanks
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[Black Hole]

Just because the kernel includes support doesn't mean the rest of the operating software is able to make use of it. That's where it becomes suck-it-and-see.

 

[Des in London]

so what was the rationale for the kernel supporting GPT then, when it never did originally? - i assume the firmware update to include support (CF 3.00) was written by people such as yourself's, as opposed to Humax?

i also assume there are other reasons for GPT support on the hummy, rather than to recognise usb hdd's formatted with gpt ext3?

 

[Black Hole]

af123 is the originating party, but I can speculate that either GPT support happened to be in the updated Linux kernel which was required for other reasons (the ability to packet filter on the network interface may be one), and/or for experimental purposes. Without kernel support, GPT experiments had no chance of going anywhere.

 

[Des in London]

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Thank you 'Black Hole', invaluable info as always!

It would be interesting to also hear from 'af123' with regards to his (her?) experiments with GPT..... (extracted from a post in 2013)....

The Humax won't work with that disk as the kernel is not compiled with GUID/EFI support. Even if that support were enabled, which it could be, it is unlikely to work because the version of Linux in use doesn't support GUID partition tables on 4K sector disks properly.

A full fix would involve backporting the fix for the last issue from a later kernel version.

This is actually on my todo list (I want to try and get a 3TB internal drive working) so my box is currently running a custom kernel with GUID/EFI and large block device support enabled but I have not yet addressed the 4K sector issue.

....to 'af123' - so 2 years on, how did your experiment go? Are you still running it, or was it simply too much hassle to get GPT support to work in the end? (thanks).


For everyone else, i take it in general, we as a community cannot simply introduce a newer more modern Linux version that does recognise/support GPT? I was reading on Wiki somewhere that all modern Linux's have this support as standard now, but i do appreciate that the fox-t2 is seriously old fashioned (August 2010) and probably uses a really ancient form of Linux (version 2.6.18? - September 2006!).

It's a shame Humax themselves havn't recognised the need for GPT support on the fox-t2, even as a future-proof feature (an OTA firmware update soon would be nice), which i think the newer Humax box's do now....?
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[Black Hole]

The Humax software (that actually runs all the PVR functionality) sits on top of the operating system, and is effectively a black box. There's nothing that can be done if it doesn't co-operate.

 

[af123]

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....to 'af123' - so 2 years on, how did your experiment go? Are you still running it, or was it simply too much hassle to get GPT support to work in the end? (thanks).

Even though it's old, the post you've quoted still sums up the current situation. It never has made it to the top of my to-do list. Kernel support is enabled in CFW builds but as far as I'm aware nobody has tried it. GPT/EFI partitioning could be tried on a drive of any size so I may give it a go with one of my spare units (just 500GB disks though I think). There's still the potential issue with GPT partioning on AF disks but it should be possible to overcome.
Still, big drives are getting cheaper so I may take the plunge and try an upgrade this year.

http://www.ebuyer.com/580645-seagate-4tb-3-5-sata-video-hard-drive-st4000vm000

 

[Des in London]

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...Still, big drives are getting cheaper so I may take the plunge and try an upgrade this year.

Yes they certainly are! - i've just bought my second '8TB hard drive' (seagate backup plus desktop), with the newest one intended to be used as a 'one-stop-shop' archive for all my recordings (external connection via usb), but i've yet to see whether the fox-t2 likes/recognises it - my 4TB hdd does so.....
(watch this space for an answer over the weekend).

I have a spare 1TB hdd AND spare HDR-Fox T2 box, so if there is anything i can do to help you with regards to experimenting/testing any custom kernels with GPT support, please feel free to ask. I've got some spare time at the moment and itching to get stuck into something!
(alas my knowledge is very very basic, but i'm a quick learner)
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[Des in London]

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Kernel support is enabled in CFW builds but as far as I'm aware nobody has tried it. GPT/EFI partitioning could be tried on a drive of any size so I may give it a go with one of my spare units (just 500GB disks though I think).

To 'af123' - further to our brief chat yesterday i can confirm GPT support isn't available, or at least not for me for external hard drive usage. (i'm on CF 1.03.12 - 3.03).

I used Gparted on my PC and formatted a 2TB usb-hdd to 'GPT Ext3' - after which i used the 'Check' option to make sure it was ok. The drive showed as passing all 5 stages, and confirmed i had a '1.82 TiB' size drive, with an 'ext3' File System.
I then connected it to my hdr-fox t2, but alas the hummy could not see it.

I even tried to copy a recording but there was no external drive option. I also dialled in my hummy via my Windows browser (web interface) but again, no drive was seen.

Is there a chance of me trying your own 'custom kernel with GUID/EFI and large block device support enabled' to test myself?

thanks, Des
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[Owen Smith]

If you're running CF 3.03 then you'r using the custom kernel already, unless you did something to disable it (there's a standard Humax kernel available for people with strange problems).

 

[Des in London]

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Thank you Owen, i'm aware i'm using the standard 'custom firmware' but we were talking about the 'support' within it for GPT/EFI also (as per revision notes 3.00), and i was merely trying to demonstrate if the support was actually working for me - which as you've read, it doesn't. So unless i'm missing something in the revision notes, i took EFI support meaning as 'actual support for GUID partition tables' so i could then use a hdd formatted using gpt ext3 instead, thus avoiding the 2TB limit for internal use.

[However, as i type this i recall only checking a hdd formatted gpt ext3 for external copying. Maybe the revision (cf 3.00) was for internal hdd gpt support.....? (I will attempt to test another hdd larger than 2tb but this time connect it inside the hummy, to see if gpt/efi support works...)]

But also, I read on a previous thread somewhere that 'af123' was using his own custom kernel with GUID/EFI support, which if true, i would like to test myself.

fyi - i want to install a 4TB (minimum) hdd internally and also connect a 8TB usb-hdd externally.

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[af123]

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But also, I read on a previous thread somewhere that 'af123' was using his own custom kernel with GUID/EFI support, which if true, i would like to test myself.

I only have the custom kernel from CFW 3.03 which does have the options for EFI enabled - the kernel configuration for that build can be read at https://rs.hpkg.tv/svn/firmware/kernel/etc/config - I plan to have a look at converting the internal disk on a spare unit to GPT over the weekend, time permitting.

 

[Des in London]

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Ah, that makes sense now. I got confused with an old conversation of yours (copied below) which i think was made before the 3.00 release to include support from then onwards.

If you're interested, you could try my custom kernel with EFI support - it might see your 3TB disk.

http://hpkg.tv/fwx/HDR_kernels.zip

That contains two HDF files - one which will install the custom kernel and one which will revert to the stock one. Put the relevant file onto a USB stick as HDR_FOX_T2_upgrade.hdf and follow the usual firmware upgrade process.

.....Thanks for clearing that one up for me .

And do let me (us) know how your endeavours go with converting an old disk to GPT (when you get a chance). As i say, i tried an external hdd with no luck, but i think the support as mentioned is most probably for internal drives. Good Luck!
.

 

[Black Hole]

...but i think the support as mentioned is most probably for internal drives.

No reason for it to be - the file system access routines should be blind to whether the mass storage unit in question is mounted by SATA or USB.

 

[af123]

Well, the kernel is happy with the GPT label that I created (non-AF disk of course) and the partitions all get automatically mounted at boot. However, the Humax software says that the storage needs to be formatted and won't record - I suspect that could be worked around with a bit of effort.

humax# fdisk -l /dev/sda

Disk /dev/sda: 500.1 GB, 500107862016 bytes
256 heads, 63 sectors/track, 60563 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16128 * 512 = 8257536 bytes

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks  Id System
/dev/sda1               1       60564   488386583+ ee EFI GPT

humax# gdisk -l /dev/sda
GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 1.0.1

Partition table scan:
  MBR: protective
  BSD: not present
  APM: not present
  GPT: present

Found valid GPT with protective MBR; using GPT.
Disk /dev/sda: 976773168 sectors, 465.8 GiB
Logical sector size: 512 bytes
Disk identifier (GUID): 7E7F2579-5C23-4181-ABB6-60BAB5041839
Partition table holds up to 128 entries
First usable sector is 34, last usable sector is 976773134
Partitions will be aligned on 2048-sector boundaries
Total free space is 4047 sectors (2.0 MiB)

Number  Start (sector)    End (sector)  Size       Code  Name
   1            2048         2099199   1024.0 MiB  8300  Linux filesystem
   2         2099200       955801614   454.8 GiB   8300  Linux filesystem
   3       955803648       976773134   10.0 GiB    8300  Linux filesystem

humax# df -h
Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/root                21.4M     21.4M         0 100% /
tmpfs                    60.9M     48.0K     60.9M   0% /tmp
tmpfs                    60.9M         0     60.9M   0% /media
/dev/mtdblock1            2.0M    540.0K      1.5M  26% /var/lib/humaxtv
/dev/mtdblock2            2.0M    500.0K      1.5M  24% /var/lib/humaxtv_backup
/dev/sda1              1007.9M     34.9M    973.0M   3% /mnt/hd1
/dev/sda2               454.6G    198.2M    454.4G   0% /mnt/hd2
/dev/sda3                 9.8G    150.6M      9.7G   1% /mnt/hd3

 

[Black Hole]

However, the Humax software says that the storage needs to be formatted and won't record

You think maybe it reads the file system type and if it does not match expectations just gives up?