Is this a Humax failing, or more fundamental?

E

ejstubbs

Member
Yesterday evening, BBC viewers in Scotland were treated to a live broadcast of the Celtic vs Hearts game on BBC One. As a consequence, The Great British Bake Off and Our Zoo were both bumped on to BBC Two. But only in Scotland. But BBC Two HD isn't regionalised, so those two episodes weren't broadcast in HD, and the SD broadcasts weren't picked up by the series link on our HDR Fox-T2.

Thank heavens for (1) iPlayer, and (2) the Humax' ability to record from its time shift buffer! SWMBO would have been rather cheesed-off otherwise.

My understanding up to now has been that series link is able to track episodes when they are broadcast on different channels. Am I wrong about that? If I'm not then it doesn't seem to be able to do the same between SD and HD, so I wonder how difficult it would be for that to be made to work?

(Or did BBC Two Scotland just foul up the series link tags on the bumped programmes?)
 
ejstubbs said:
My understanding up to now has been that series link is able to track episodes when they are broadcast on different channels. Am I wrong about that?
Click to expand...
No, but it is down to the broadcaster and the BBC usually treat porgrammes that jump channels as a totally different series. I have had two BBC series that jumped channels and were recorded without intervention by an HDR-FOX T2. I posted a couple of screen shots so the proof is out there somewhere.


3rd edit. As my 1st edit was correct not my 2nd! : I've found the post that I was thinking of. I hadn't posted screenshots. I'll post back details later when/if I have time.

There is also what looks like a cycling mini series at the weekend which if set as a series from the handheld remote I am expecting to have recordings from both BBC1 and BBC2. The CRID setups look similar to series I have successfully recorded before now that have jumped channels.
 
Last edited:
Luke said:
No, but it is down to the broadcaster and the BBC usually treat porgrammes that jump channels as a totally different series.
Click to expand...

Trev said:
Not on the F1 they don't. My Foxsat doesn't jump channels, as discussed elsewhere.
Click to expand...
You start off my disagreeing with my statement and then you back it up. If the BBC treat programmes that jump channels as belonging to a different series then of course the recorder will not jump channels.:)
 
ejstubbs said:
My understanding up to now has been that series link is able to track episodes when they are broadcast on different channels. Am I wrong about that?
Click to expand...
The ability for the freeview HDR-FOX T2 recorder to track episodes for a series is dependant on the broadcaster using the same series ID for all the programmes that jump as well as the ones that don't. Also if y0u are using customer firmware's web-if to schedule the series then even when the broadcaster does get it right in my limited experience the series recording will not jump channels.
I have successfully had series recorded that jump channels but they have only been when the broadcaster has got it right and I have scheduled that series using the handheld remote.

There is a cycling series this weekend that is giving the same appearance as the series (plural) that I have had previous success recording. It starts on BBC One and BBC One HD and then moves to BBC Two and BBC Two HD for the next two programmes:1 epg entries.png

There are just 2 series identifiers used -one for the SD broadcasts and one for the HD:
2 SD Series MIBTW5.png
3 HD Series U40D91.png

After reserving both series by the handheld remote the schedule on the TV shows that the HDR-FOX T2 is aware of all episodes (regardless of channels):
4 Reserved using handheld remote.jpg

This is also reflected in the web-if schedule view:
5 Reserved using handheld remote.png

But cancel one of the series and reschedule it using the web-if of the custom firmware and the two episodes that are on a different channel disappear from the schedule:
6 HD scheduled using webif.png
This is also reflected on the HDR-FOX T2's schedule on the TV, which also shows the series link symbol.
 
That's very interesting. I'm keen to see what is being stored in the raw database each time. Would it be possible to take a backup through the web interface for these two cases and post them (or email them to me if you'd rather)?
 
I'll see what I can do Saturday as I 've run out of spare time till at least then! The screen shots were from a 1.02.20 but the screenshots from 1.03.12 would have been identical. If I can make the time I'll use a 1.03.12 for the backups.
Come to think of it last February when I came across this I was using a different physical HDR-FOX T2 to either of those. That makes me even more confident that this is not an isolated case.

Will this be straightforward extract the backups once I attempt it? Nothing obviouss glares at me about how to extract them.
 
In the F1 that I had problems with, the BBC did not give the parts of the series that were on different channels a different CRID.
This might not have been the exact scenario, but for instance. The practice was on BBC2, the Quali was on BBC2 and the race was on BBC1. I set the series to record with the practice on BBC2. The practice was recorded as was the Quali, but the race was not. All had the same CRID, but it seems that once the Foxsat had set its heart on recording that series on BBC2, it would not then switch to BBC1 to finish the series. As it happens, it didn't matter as I watched the race live anyway. It was only later that I discovered that it hadn't been recorded.
As I said above, this has been discussed elsewhere, and, in any case is pretty irrelevant as I am talking Foxsat not the freeview T2
 
Luke said:
Will this be straightforward extract the backups once I attempt it? Nothing obviouss glares at me about how to extract them.
Click to expand...
They are stored on the hard disk under /mod/var/backups/ so FTP is probably the best way to extract them.
 
af123 said:
They are stored on the hard disk under /mod/var/backups/ so FTP is probably the best way to extract them.
Click to expand...
FTP may not be feasible as I have had difficulty with firewalls attempting to FTP into the boxes and do not want to start tinkering with the firewall settings of the PC I would use. But I won't know for certain until I try.
 
af123 said:
They are stored on the hard disk under /mod/var/backups/ so FTP is probably the best way to extract them.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I will not be able to use FTP.
Is their anyway that this can be done via maintenance mode?
 
I've sent some databases to af123, but the key to it (on the face of it anyway) seems to be:
szEventToRecord is "1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3AY3|1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3B3P|1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3AY4|" in things scheduled using the Humax remote
and is "1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3AY3|" for BBC1 and "1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3B3P|1FP.BBC.CO.UK/7A3AY4|" for BBC2 for things done using the Webif
 
Black Hole said:
ejstubbs said:
My understanding up to now has been that series link is able to track episodes when they are broadcast on different channels. Am I wrong about that?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Click to expand...

I have unearthed reports and discussions on other forums which seem to suggest fairly clearly that the HDR-FOX T2 can track series between channels. For example, Channel 5 at one time was using the same series CRID for one of its Aussie soaps across different Five channels, but put a different programme CRID on the repeats on the different channels. The result was that the Fox T2 recorded the same episode multiple times, once from each channel. It was correctly tracking the series CRID and believing, from the different programme CRIDs, that they were all different episodes. Something similar has apparently happened in the past on Channel 4's channels and even on the BBC. Sample references http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1678996 and http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1648286.

I can see that the system can't easily handle SD & HD simulcasts, though. How would the box decide which channel to record if the series and programme CRIDs on both channels were the same, and the programmes were broadcast simultaneously? Hence the broadcasters have to use different series CRIDs for the SD and HD format broadcasts, and hence why I fell in to a series link black hole on Wednesday evening due to the non-regionalisation of BBC2 HD.

(The above is based on this concise explanation of how series link works by Graham Thompson. On the other hand, that explanation doesn't appear to tally with the the "Things every owner should know" explanation here. Which is correct?)

[Edited to correct the grammar in the second para.]
 
Last edited:
I record F1 coverage regularly and can confirm that the one series link (set via handheld remote) does capture recordings on both channels for me. I do, however, recall that there were
some 'misses' in the early part of this season, so perhaps BBC haven't always got it right - or it may have been down to a regional (Scotland) time variation.
Next week's Japan GP is one that BBC have the live rights for so it should provide a suitable test-bed for experimentation, if required.
 
So I hope we get a couple of practice slots as well as quali. I'll keep my eye out for that to see if they cross channel it with the same CRID and exactly what happens.
 
tonybonner said:
Next week's Japan GP is one that BBC have the live rights for so it should provide a suitable test-bed for experimentation, if required.
Click to expand...
They have come into view on the epg. Like the cycling for this weekend the BBC are using the same CRID for both BBC 1 and BBC 2.

For an example of a series where the same CRID has been used on repeat broadcasts channel 5 use to be a good source. These days channel 5 now use different CRIDs for their repeat broadcasts E.g. for home and away and neighbours a '1' is inserted for 5+1, a '6' is inserted for 5* and if there was a repeat on 5+24 it would have an '8' inserted.
However, channel 5 do sometimes make mistakes for other series.

The Nightmare Neighbour Next Door is broadcast on 5, 5+1 and 5*. Channel 5 have inserted a '6' (not their usual '1') into the CRID for the 5+1 repeat but have left the CRID for the repeat on 5* the same as for Channel 5. For this series when the handheld remote is used to set the series from Channel 5 the repeat episodes on 5* are not also set despite the CRID being the same. There appears to be some additional logic in the HDR-FOX T2 that can tell if it's a repeat or if t is a series that is jumping channels.
 
Luke said:
The ability for the freeview HDR-FOX T2 recorder to track episodes for a series is dependant on the broadcaster using the same series ID for all the programmes that jump as well as the ones that don't.
Click to expand...

Maybe the events linked to the crid are more significant. I noticed several months ago that UTV (Free view) and TV3 (Irish saor view) had the exact same series crid for their series. I had a screenshot of the webif schedule at the time but I deleted it.

These series had the same series crid and multiple events were listed in webif but the HDR only scheduled recordings related to the original recording.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top