Mix AR with Padding. Possible?

[Trev]

Thanks MET. I'm going to try that in a bit with a manual double programme recording. I was using detectads with crop, but as I said, foe some reason the crop was not 100% accurate and I don't want to aggravate further HWMBO by breaking The Celebrity Chase yet again. When it worked OK it was brilliant.

 

[MikeSh]

The programmes that started this all off was that I wanted to record two consecutive programmes on Yesterday. I can't remember whether or not I was trying to record something else at the same time. It trimmed off the last couple of mins of the first programme and tacked them onto the start of the second. Is this normal? The second programme also lost the last couple of mins, which is why I suspected faulty AR transmission.

I don't often grab stuff on Yesterday but do record some on Drama and the same thing has happened. They often run a bit late but the "AR" seems to just trigger at the hour. I added Drama to the use padding side on Multimode (with -2:+5 minutes) and haven't had a problem since.
However, on any channel - AR or padded - consecutive recordings on the same channel can still end up sharing a bit, so when I get to the end of any programme I usually just have a quick look to check there isn't anything I want lurking in the last few seconds.

 

[Trev]

so when I get to the end of any programme I usually just have a quick look to check there isn't anything I want lurking in the last few seconds.

But my problem was the opposite. It cut off the end of the first and tacked at least some of the cut stuff onto the second, then cut off the end of the second.
I have at the moment, two consecutive programmes recording on Pick with another bridging the change over on BBC1HD (to make sure that 'the other' tuner is in use). All on AR, so I'll check it out in a bit.

EDIT: Checked out my AR recordings and the two on pick went wrong. First one trimmed at the end with the trimmed bit at the start of the second one as before. So now to try the padding method.

 

[Trev]

You can set a manual recording for any channel for any times (duration) you want (and create a repeating pattern to simulate a crude series record). Easiest way is create a standard one of recording and simply edit it to whatever start/stop times (and repeat pattern) in the scheduled recording list.

Well, I've 'poked about' and I give in. How do I edit the box to record a two hour slot?

 

[Ezra Pound]

Trev : Second EDIT. Well, I give in. How do I set the box to record a two hour slot?

Set a manual recording, i.e. :- Guide >> Schedule (Yellow) >> New Reservation >> fill in the fields channel, date, start time, end, Time, repeat, mode
or

Trev : How do I edit the box to record a two hour slot?

Guide >> Schedule (Yellow) >> Select an existing reservation and edit the fields detailed above to extend the start / end times

 

[grahamlthompson]

Or

choose the programme in the guide you want to make manual. Choose record the whole programme. Press Yellow to display recording schedule. Locate specific recording and press OK. Edit any details and press OK.

 

[Black Hole]

Note that editing any details in that way, or even viewing the details and clicking OK instead of Cancel, results in the reservation being converted to a manual timed recording that responds to the clock only, with no properties of AR tracking or even EPG update tracking. (I'm not saying that's a problem, but it is a property of manual timer settings and worth remembering.)

 

[Trev]

press OK. Edit any details and press OK.

That's the bit I was stumbling at. Thanks to all three of you. What a dunce?

 

[MikeSh]

But my problem was the opposite. It cut off the end of the first and tacked at least some of the cut stuff onto the second, then cut off the end of the second.

Yes, of course it can be either way. If the end is clipped then obviously I will go to the next recording to see the missing part.
If the AR is cutting the end of the first and second progs then it's likely not being AR in any real sense and you'll be better off with padding.

EDIT: Checked out my AR recordings and the two on pick went wrong. First one trimmed at the end with the trimmed bit at the start of the second one as before. So now to try the padding method.

A lot of the minor channels don't do AR properly. I think I recorded a series on Pick a few months ago and one of the programmes lost the last few seconds. (I wasn't sure how much I had missed, so I manual recorded the last 10 minutes + 10 minutes 'padding' of a repeat.) If I record any more off Pick I'll probably bung that on the left of multimode as well.

 

[MymsMan]

The minor channels rarely. if. ever, have live programmes that are liable to overrun so there is less need for AR on those channels but there is really no excuse for them to get it wrong.

 

[Luke]

The minor channels rarely. if. ever, have live programmes that are liable to overrun so there is less need for AR on those channels but there is really no excuse for them to get it wrong.

By 'it' do you mean 'AR' or something else?
If you mean AR and if a broadcaster does not use AR for all its channels then in what way are they getting 'it wrong'?

 

[Trev]

If you read the 'cut and thrust' of this thread and the problem that I am trying to straighten in my head, it's obvious that MymsMan's 'it' means AR. The problem that I am having is the AR signal apparently being transmitted at the wrong time, not the absence of the AR signal.

 

[Black Hole]

The "wrong" time probably meaning in sync with the EPG timings rather than the actual broadcast timings.

 

[MymsMan]

If you read the 'cut and thrust' of this thread and the problem that I am trying to straighten in my head, it's obvious that MymsMan's 'it' means AR. The problem that I am having is the AR signal apparently being transmitted at the wrong time, not the absence of the AR signal.

To confirm whether AR signals have been generated or scheduled times used could you look at the recordings info in webif or with hmt utility and post the actual and scheduled start/stop times (prior to any cropping)

 

[Luke]

The "wrong" time probably meaning in sync with the EPG timings rather than the actual broadcast timings.

Ah! That makes sense to me now. Thanks.
I was having difficulty getting my head around AR times being 'wrong' for channels that haven't opted for supporting AR.

 

[Black Hole]

To confirm whether AR signals have been generated or scheduled times used could you look at the recordings info in webif or with hmt utility and post the actual and scheduled start/stop times (prior to any cropping)

Or just look at where the bookmarks are on the time bar, having run arbookmarks. This can be done on-screen, or via WebIF.

 

[Trev]

I have deleted the originals so will record some more today using consecutive programmes on one channel and another on a different MPX. I'll run arbookmarks but not detectads so I don't have too many bookmarls to sort out. I'll report back later when done.

 

[MymsMan]

To confirm whether AR signals have been generated or scheduled times used could you look at the recordings info in webif or with hmt utility and post the actual and scheduled start/stop times (prior to any cropping)

I did my own experiments with a couple of back to back recordings on Pick and it confirms the suspicions of Luke and BH that the recordings are starting/ finishing at the scheduled times.

Start Time     Fri Dec 18 08:00:04 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 08:00:00 2015 GMT)
End Time     Fri Dec 18 08:30:02 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 08:30:00 2015 GMT)
Bookmarks 5 @ 00:00:20, 00:11:58, 00:14:40, 00:27:25, 00:29:57

Start Time Fri Dec 18 08:30:09 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 08:30:00 2015 GMT)
End Time Fri Dec 18 09:00:03 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 09:00:00 2015 GMT)
Bookmarks 5 @ 00:00:43, 00:12:14, 00:16:03, 00:27:25, 00:29:51

The commercial breaks as found by DetectAds show there is a comfortable 2.5 minutes of commercial padding at the end and 20-40 seconds at the start so to actually lose a significant amount of the end of a program they would have to be running 3 or more minutes late.

Since Pick has no live programs that could cause overruns I still think there is no excuse for them to be so far off schedule that Trev loses the end of programs and has to contemplate add additional padding, with the problems that can cause for other recordings, to compensate for their incompetence.

Perhaps Ofcom should require broadcasters to generate accurate AR signals and not permit opt-out of the AR system if programmes frequently run late.

 

[Trev]

Right then, the recordings that I made this morning were:

Frasier
Channel 13 - Channel 4+1
Start Time Fri Dec 18 09:59:25 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 10:00:00 2015 GMT) {Started 35 Sec early}
End Time Fri Dec 18 10:29:59 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 10:30:00 2015 GMT) {Ended just about spot on}{
Duration 30 minute(s). (Scheduled: 30)

Frasier
Channel 13 - Channel 4+1
Start Time Fri Dec 18 10:30:00 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 10:30:00 2015 GMT){Started spot on}
End Time Fri Dec 18 11:00:23 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 11:00:00 2015 GMT){Ended 23 Sec late}
Duration 30 minute(s). (Scheduled: 30)

Homes Under the Hammer (to use both tuners across the changeover time of Frasier.
Channel 1 - BBC ONE HD
Start Time Fri Dec 18 10:00:02 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 10:00:00 2015 GMT){Started 2 Sec late}
End Time Fri Dec 18 11:00:14 2015 GMT (Scheduled: Fri Dec 18 11:00:00 2015 GMT){Ended 14 Sec late}
Duration 60 minute(s). (Scheduled: 60)

Both Frasiers recorded just fine and dandy with ads at the start and end of both. There were no arbookmarks in the recordings, but as I was using AR, I suppose that's normal. So much for that experiment then.
Shame I deleted the original ones that gave me the problem. Next time I have a prob, I'll not make so free with the delete so that a post mortem can be held.

 

[Black Hole]

Twit! I thought you were supposed to be making manually-set timer recordings!!