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Options for Domestic Wired Networking / Broadband

Black Hole said:
The default sets up a different SSID, therefore (I guess) effectively a separate network managed separately. I don't know how items on one network would be able to address the other though...
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Irrelevant, you can have as many SSIDs as you like creating wifi networks which all use one DHCP server. Wifi and DHCP have nothing to do with each other and operate at different levels of the network stack. Wifi basically acts as a replacement for network cables and ethernet switches operating below the IP layer. You don't introduce a new DHCP server to go with each gigabit switch.
 
Black Hole said:
However, I could exclude the HDRs from the extended network by using separate SSIDs.
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That's essentially what I was suggesting in #352.

Black Hole said:
I don't know how items on one network would be able to address the other though.
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It's obviously a bit different being single router, but everything happily talks between our 2.4 and 5 networks with different SSIDs. As far as I've noticed (not checked specifically) they use the same IP address across both networks.

Black Hole said:
Where are the listed MACs coming from?
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I thought they were programmed into devices. Are you seeing different ones?
 
SemiRamis said:
How do they make sure the MAC s are not duplicated?
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By definition MAC addresses are globally unique. The first 6 digits are allocated to a manufacturer and then they're required to allocate the remaining 6 digits to the products they manufacture in a unique way. If you ever find duplicate MAC addresses someone has been playing silly buggers. I haven't looked into when we might run out of MAC addresses.
 
Many devices - phones, laptops - now spoof their MAC addresses for "security reasons", changing them frequently. I'm not completely sure what this buys you, security wise but presumably it blows a hole in the original concept. But given the local scope there still shouldn't be a duplication issue.
 
Wildebeest said:
Many devices - phones, laptops - now spoof their MAC addresses for "security reasons", changing them frequently. I'm not completely sure what this buys you, security wise but presumably it blows a hole in the original concept. But given the local scope there still shouldn't be a duplication issue.
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That's still done within the manufacturers' allocated MAC address ranges, indeed many of them got new allocated ranges for this purpose. I don't know how they avoid clashes, possibly by listening for any duplicates and switching address if they spot one?

Security wise what it means is you can't be tracked by your MAC address. Eg a wifi hotspot in a cafe would otherwise be able to track you over the years if your device always used the same MAC address.
 
So what are you saying then: when the router allows me to assign a meaningful name to connected devices by MAC, it's gonna get confused because devices rotate their MAC? Seems unlikely to me!
 
SemiRamis said:
I don't think he means the Humax boxes
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The Humax boxes don't rotate their MAC addresses. I doubt much home AV gear does, there's no point it doesn't get used on the move.

But yes if your phone is rotating MAC addresses and you give it a meaningful name on your home wifi, the name will be lost (attached to an unused MAC) next time your phone changes.

I have my iPad and iPhone configured not to rotate MACs on my home network. This way I can give them fixed IP allocations in the DHCP server, and since it's my network I'm not concerned about being tracked. Just look at the settings for the wifi network in your phone, on iOS it shows you both the real MAC address and the privacy one and gives you the option to turn privacy off.
 
All very interesting and I see those settings on my iPad, and in fact it explains the third screen-shot in post 356 where the redacted device name is my iPad and although I'm clearly using it, it's not shown as connected!

I don't think that applies to my phone though (Android 7), it seems to still be registered (although it might announce itself - the RE200 did). What surprises me there is that the phone seems to drop off the IP list when it's asleep.

But none of this explains why the MACs listed against IP address allocations on the router (post 356 shot 3) are completely different than the MACs listed by the RE200 (post 356 shot 2), nor am I any closer to figuring out which devices are linked to the RE200 and which directly to the router.
 
Black Hole said:
But none of this explains why the MACs listed against IP address allocations on the router (post 356 shot 3) are completely different than the MACs listed by the RE200 (post 356 shot 2), nor am I any closer to figuring out which devices are linked to the RE200 and which directly to the router.
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Bear in mind 2.4GHz and 5GHz on the same device have different MAC addresses. Other than that possibility I have no answer.
 
Wildebeest said:
Many devices - phones, laptops - now spoof their MAC addresses for "security reasons", changing them frequently. I'm not completely sure what this buys you, security wise but presumably it blows a hole in the original concept. But given the local scope there still shouldn't be a duplication issue.
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Ohhh. That is (probably) the explanation to a weirdness in my router listings. Just dug into my phone settings (Android 14) and it does indeed do randomised MACs on WiFi. I'll look deeper in due course.
 
Owen Smith said:
Bear in mind 2.4GHz and 5GHz on the same device have different MAC addresses.
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That may be so for randomised MACs but not if using the device MAC.
(Just checked on my phone that I set to use device MAC on the 2.4 and 5 home WiFi networks and both have the same MAC.)
 
MikeSh said:
That may be so for randomised MACs but not if using the device MAC.
(Just checked on my phone that I set to use device MAC on the 2.4 and 5 home WiFi networks and both have the same MAC.)
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But if you check wifi basestations they list two separate MACs, one for 2.4 and one for 5 GHz. It may depend on whether the device is capable of using both simultaneously, basestations are and phones often are not.
 
Owen Smith said:
But if you check wifi basestations they list two separate MACs, one for 2.4 and one for 5 GHz. It may depend on whether the device is capable of using both simultaneously, basestations are and phones often are not.
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Well that's getting into an Alice in Wonderland scenario.
Base stations don't allocate MACs, the device tells the bs what it's MAC is. AFAIK devices only use 5 or 2.4, not both simultaneously. And even if they did use both, why would using the same MAC be a problem?
 
IIRC the Humax dongles are 2.4 only anyway. The 9 devices listed by the RE200 have to include the WiFi HDRs – I can't figure what else I have to make up that number. I suppose I could use a process of elimination to work out which are they.
 
Black Hole said:
I suppose I could use a process of elimination to work out which are they.
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At this stage I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve.
In post #349 you had a problem that might be due to the HDRs connecting to the extender. As that is a recent addition can you not live without it for a while and unplug it? If that works then reinstall it but with a different SSID and see if the problem returns. If not then just tell the non-HDR devices they can use that as well.
If the problem returns then there is something weird going on at a more fundamental level.
 
Well, since I've been investigating the original problem has not recurred. Now it is a matter of intrigue where these apparently unmatching MACs are coming from. I can positively associate MACs at the router (192.168.1.13 & .14 are the WiFi-connected HDRs), so by turning those off (one at a time) I should then see which drop out in the RE200's stats.
 
MikeSh said:
Well that's getting into an Alice in Wonderland scenario.
Base stations don't allocate MACs, the device tells the bs what it's MAC is. AFAIK devices only use 5 or 2.4, not both simultaneously. And even if they did use both, why would using the same MAC be a problem?
Click to expand...
Wifi base stations have MAC addresses. Often they're printed on a label underneath.
 
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