Options for Domestic Wired Networking / Broadband

[MikeSh]

Wifi base stations have MAC addresses. Often they're printed on a label underneath.

Ah, I see what you meant now. Yes, my router has different MACs for 2.4 and 5 (I imagine it has another for the world facing connection too, but can't find it in the menus).
But all our devices that are using WiFi just have one for both frequencies.

On the hardwired side I haven't yet identified a device entry for the ethernet switch that serves all the video devices. (5-port Netgear box with one port back to the router and the other four to TV, etc.) I'd have thought that would have an ID, or are switches a special case?

 

[Owen Smith]

Ah, I see what you meant now. Yes, my router has different MACs for 2.4 and 5 (I imagine it has another for the world facing connection too, but can't find it in the menus).

Your router will have another MAC address for your home network hard wired ethernet ports. The world facing connection is ADSL or VDSL (assuming you are using an all in one router) and doesn't work the same way. MAC addresses are ethernert/wifi things.

On the hardwired side I haven't yet identified a device entry for the ethernet switch that serves all the video devices. (5-port Netgear box with one port back to the router and the other four to TV, etc.) I'd have thought that would have an ID, or are switches a special case?

Ethernet switches don't have MAC addresses. They're not an addressable end point that traffic can be sent to or received from. They just learn what MAC addresses can be reached over the various ports and forward traffic. If you move a device to a different port on the switch you won't be able to access it until you power cycle the switch and it re-learns where the devices are. That is assuming it actually is an ethernet switch and not a hub, which just repeats all traffic on all ports.

 

[prpr]

The world facing connection is ADSL or VDSL (assuming you are using an all in one router) and doesn't work the same way. MAC addresses are ethernert/wifi things.

Yes, but that's just a modem bolted on to the back of the router subsystem. The WAN interface of the router (which is usually internally connected to said modem) will have a MAC address just the same as the LAN and Wireless interfaces.

Ethernet switches don't have MAC addresses. They're not an addressable end point that traffic can be sent to or received from.

This is not true. Unmanaged switches don't have MAC addresses, but managed ones most certainly do, because you manage them via IP and so they have to work like any other device.

If you move a device to a different port on the switch you won't be able to access it until you power cycle the switch and it re-learns where the devices are.

This is not true either. Decent (i.e. almost all) ones detect the loss of link on the port when you unplug the cable and clear the entry from their forwarding database.
When you plug the device in to another port, it re-learns from the received traffic and updates its database.
To suggest you need to reboot the switch when moving cables is just ridiculous.

 

[Owen Smith]

This is not true. Unmanaged switches don't have MAC addresses, but managed ones most certainly do, because you manage them via IP and so they have to work like any other device.

Most ethernet switches are unmanaged.

To suggest you need to reboot the switch when moving cables is just ridiculous.

That's exactly what happens on my NetGear gigabit switches.

 

[prpr]

Most ethernet switches are unmanaged.

I sincerely doubt that. They might be in your little world, but not in the real one.
You're just trying to weasel out of your blanket statement. Mine was correct. Yours wasn't.

That's exactly what happens on my NetGear gigabit switches.

They're just toys then. Name and shame the model.

 

[Owen Smith]

What is it with hummy.tv? Why is there so much attacking people?

They're just toys then. Name and shame the model.

I'm not in the same county at the moment, but it's only the best selling gigabit ethernet switch. EDIT: NetGear GS108. Built so solidly that they and cockroaches will be sharing the post nuclear blast world.

 

[MikeSh]

Most ethernet switches are unmanaged.

Like prpr that seems to me a rather far reaching statement. Small ones like mine are unmanaged but ones used in the professional world of distribution and datacentres are probably managed, or at least capable of being so.
What the relative numbers are of each type I don't know, but with the rise of WiFi I suspect the lower end ones are getting rarer. Most people will rather use wireless if they can than run cables. (I'm an oddity.)

 

[Owen Smith]

What the relative numbers are of each type I don't know, but with the rise of WiFi I suspect the lower end ones are getting rarer. Most people will rather use wireless if they can than run cables. (I'm an oddity.)

And in my experience they will complain about how poorly their wifi works at the opposite end of the house from the router where they actually want to use it, while failing to do anything about it. When I suggest either moving the router or adding ethernet switches and a separate wifi base station they look at me as if I'm mad, and somehow there ought to be some magic that will make the router in a stupid place give superb wifi throughout the house.

 

[Black Hole]

What have I always said about using the word "most" without proper evidence?

 

[Owen Smith]

I see plenty of lack of evidence on all sides in recent posts on this thread. For example I have no evidence of most ethernet switches being unmanaged, but others equally have no evidence of the opposite. So we'll have to call it quits and move on.

 

[MikeSh]

And in my experience they will complain about how poorly their wifi works at the opposite end of the house from the router where they actually want to use it, while failing to do anything about it. When I suggest either moving the router or adding ethernet switches and a separate wifi base station they look at me as if I'm mad, and somehow there ought to be some magic that will make the router in a stupid place give superb wifi throughout the house.

We have that problem. The house was built when BT/developer just put the phone socket by the front door, so it's the other end of the house from the garden and sun room. I have an extender which I used for a few weeks but it's not often we need the network out back (sun-screen ...) and as the 4G coverage improved locally I reckoned it wasn't worth the cost of the power to run the extender.
When/if we go full fibre I might get them to run it to a more central location, but it's not a trivial thing to achieve, particularly given the sparsity of power outlets in 80s houses. (Almost all seem to have been placed for the convenience of the installers and are useless without using extension leads of which we have many.)

 

[Wallace]

I have two managed switches at home. As prpr states, the each have their own MAC address that is used to 'manage them'. I do not have to power cycle them if I move a connected device to another port on the same switch.

 

[MikeSh]

Odd coincidence. Today I got a marketing email from Netgear. It's almost as if they monitor the forum

(I probably registered a device with them years ago and have had mail before I think, but it's very rare - maybe once a year.)

 

[Black Hole]

My broadband went down lunchtime yesterday. Netgear router reports "Internet not connected", BT Home Hub4 flashes orange at me*. Voice circuit works fine, therefore either the problem is in the ADSL splitter (really?) or it's in the circuit at the exchange where the broadband signal gets injected onto my line, or perhaps a line fault is leaking the HF signal away before it gets to me.

BT Help: "Oh, if you've got voice the problem must be on your premises." Bllx. I don't want to be waiting around at home unnecessarily, but no doubt the engineer will want access to the end point. The first engineer appointment is Tuesday!

* I can't get to the management page. 168.192.1.254 just gives me blank. A page did pop up when I linked to the hub initially, but it went away again before I could register what it said.

 

[prpr]

It's been known for BT to "accidentally" cease the ADSL broadband on a line. That needed a complete cease and re-provide (and consequent change of static IP address) and took nearly two weeks to sort, even with involvement from fairly high up in BT...
Maybe they've converted you to VDSL without telling you ?

I presume your 168.192 is a typo? What does flashing orange mean? I have no idea about HomeHubs. (PhilTheGreek: "I won't have 'em in the palace...")

Does your phone sound slightly 'odd' if you plug it directly in to the linebox without the filter, compared to with it? I presume you've removed the bottom half and plugged in directly, isolating any extension wiring, as this is the demarcation point?

 

[bottletop]

As per above, isolate from internal wiring. Use the ISP supplied router. Reset to factory defaults. Connect directly to test socket on master socket (without splitter or another known working splitter) . Test again. This will make sure it's not internal wiring. It should show what the broadband status is. Use another browser if necessary. (Bit of a chore, but for me, on 1 or 2 occasions it was internal wiring issue. The other 5+ times it was external.)

 

[Owen Smith]

They always insist that each "engineer" visit starts in your premises and works backwards towards the exchange. They kept blaming my in house wiring for intermittent ADSL faults 10 years ago, but given I don't have any and am plugged into the master socket for everything that was rubbish. After 6 visits spread over 8 months they finally turned on the Time Domain Reflectometry for my line, and this quickly showed a bad reflection 2.7km from my house and 1.7km from the exchange (which is actually the same place). Doing that didn't even prevent use of the line. It was just settings at the exchange to turn it on, no engineer visit needed, so you'd think they'd do that first before sending anyone out. They moved my line to the other big bundle going from my village to the exchange and all the problems stopped, perfect line apart from the length.

2 years after that I was able to move to VDSL and 2 years later G.Fast as part of the trials. I don't think I could stand going back to ADSL, certainly not at the 3 megabits down 250 kilobits up speeds I was getting.

 

[Black Hole]

I presume your 168.192 is a typo?

Yes. Anyway, I sorted that out by turning off the WiFi extender – for some reason the BT Hub isn't happy working with it.

The orange status bar indicates lack of broadband signal, and it flashes for a period (I presume while it's retrying).

I'm already connected directly to the master socket, going to the inner socket is something to try but only to dot the i's and cross the t's.

 

[prpr]

Have you not got a modem you can plug in and monitor? A Netgear DG834 or similar?

 

[Black Hole]

Netgear DGND3700v2. I only plugged in the Home Hub 4 to prove it wasn't the Netgear at fault, and BT are less likely to push the blame my way if the modem/router they supplied is on the line.

But all the Netgear says is "no connection" (clicking through just provides options to configure the connection, no actual stats what's going on). I'm thinking your theory about having had ADSL turned off (or potentially "upgraded" to VDSL) may be correct.