Over-saturation on iPlayer UHD

[Rodders53]

I did submit a report to iPlayer, with all the details (including device model number, etc).

First line 'droids, sadly using boiler-plate template replies. Likely out-sourced to C(r)apita like Reception Advice was.

Reply stating it doesn't answer the question. Re-word your question, perhaps, to be more explicit.
e.g. "My TV fully supports UHD streaming of BBC iPlayer but... "

Have you tried changing any settings on your TV as I suggested? {I can envisage a metadata issue that some UHD streams to some devices may be wrong...} NB there is no one single iPlayer stream, they get customised to suit the players which is why some TVs/PVRs lose iPlayer access completely.

 

[mike_m]

Reply stating it doesn't answer the question. Re-word your question, perhaps, to be more explicit.
e.g. "My TV fully supports UHD streaming of BBC iPlayer but... "

Yes, good idea.

Have you tried changing any settings on your TV as I suggested? {I can envisage a metadata issue that some UHD streams to some devices may be wrong...} NB there is no one single iPlayer stream, they get customised to suit the players which is why some TVs/PVRs lose iPlayer access completely.

I wondered whether was an issue with metadata - an awful lot of different devices to cater for, easy to get some wrong, I guess... it is a trial after all.
Currently engaged in vehicle recovery hell - broken road spring, trying to match up vehicle recovery availability (drivers & parts shortage) with repair shop availability... but I'll get round to it eventually!

 

[sine24]

Same TV make and model as the OP, or different?

No. LG

 

[davey64]

Have watched The English on Amazon Prime in UHD and it is also oversaturated same as on iPlayer UHD.
Recorded The English on my Aura in HD and colours are not as saturated. Colour space is BT 2020.
If other iPlayer UHD streams display as you would expect then it must have been a choice of the
production company to have filmed The English in this way.

 

[sine24]

choice of the
production company to have filmed The English in this way.

Why would it be ok in hd? I too saw it in hd and it was fine

 

[Rodders53]

Have watched The English on Amazon Prime in UHD and it is also oversaturated same as on iPlayer UHD.
Recorded The English on my Aura in HD and colours are not as saturated. Colour space is BT 2020.
If other iPlayer UHD streams display as you would expect then it must have been a choice of the
production company to have filmed The English in this way.

Colour space on 1080i/p HD is / must be Rec BT 709. Programmes will be ingested played out and encoded suitably.

UHD ingest of the same programme for iPlayer will be the wider BT 2100 and HLG is used for iPlayer. (2100 is based on 2020- in its most recent versions incorporating the HDR function definitions from a quick scan read of stuff).
See https://www.bbc.co.uk/delivery/technical-requirements
UHD delivered programmes may be mastered in other HDR formats (within BT2100 spec) but must be delivered to BBC as HLG (and BBC supply lookup tables for the conversion from PQ HDR formats).

I suspect, but can't be sure that BBC will require both HD and UHD files are delivered from the programme makers (so they are responsible for getting it right 'artistically') and only SD stuff gets downscaled for emission and conversion from Rec BT 709 to Rec BT 601 (aka CCIR 601) for PAL/NTSC/Secam (if necessary, the last two having extremely similar colour spaces) during code and mux.

Modern TVs have so many 'per input' settings and adjustments that are only invoked when watching a suitable input source/stream that I'd not entirely rule out a 'difference' in such TV adjustments entirely for those who've observed this?.
{Nor that BBC haven't mis-labelled something in metadata nor had a recoding error for certain devices' streams only. Or even that the programme maker converted to HLG incorrectly before delivery... but I'd have expected BBC to notice that sort of error.}

I can't find The English on Prime TV... but haven't tried too hard.

 

[mike_m]

If other iPlayer UHD streams display as you would expect then it must have been a choice of the
production company to have filmed The English in this way.

I'm pretty sure no DOP would film The English with such over-saturation (though of course the cameras are digital, no film involved!). Normally, colour decisions like that would be taken by the director in post-production, but once again, I can't imagine any director would allow it. If they had, it would raise the question (as Sine24 says) of why the HD version should be perfect - implying that it was then re-graded it for HD, which seems unlikely.

 

[mike_m]

Modern TVs have so many 'per input' settings and adjustments that are only invoked when watching a suitable input source/stream that I'd not entirely rule out a 'difference' in such TV adjustments entirely for those who've observed this?.
{Nor that BBC haven't mis-labelled something in metadata nor had a recoding error for certain devices' streams only. Or even that the programme maker converted to HLG incorrectly before delivery... but I'd have expected BBC to notice that sort of error.}

Yes, those are the most likely reasons in my mind. Either Samsung has chosen a duff lot of default settings (on this model of TV) for when it detects a UHD stream, or there's a metadata issue somewhere. If everybody were seeing this when watching full UHD on iPlayer, there'd be an outcry.

 

[Black Hole]

I'm pretty sure no DOP would film The English with such over-saturation

I think you misunderstand: the content is not over-saturated, just that the TV is using the wrong colour gamut or conversion so that it appears over-saturated, or perhaps an incorrect conversion has been applied when creating the UHD stream.

 

[mike_m]

I think you misunderstand: the content is not over-saturated, just that the TV is using the wrong colour gamut or conversion so that it appears over-saturated, or perhaps an incorrect conversion has been applied when creating the UHD stream.

I'm fully aware of that, as my reply to Rodders53 implies. In this case, I was replying to Davey64, who suggested that 'it must have been a choice of the production company to have filmed The English in this way'.

 

[sine24]

. Either Samsung has chosen a duff lot of default settings

Or in my case LG

 

[mike_m]

Have you tried changing any settings on your TV as I suggested? {I can envisage a metadata issue that some UHD streams to some devices may be wrong...} NB there is no one single iPlayer stream, they get customised to suit the players which is why some TVs/PVRs lose iPlayer access completely.

After a couple of hours' examining different iPlayer UHD shows at different settings, I think my problem was actually quite simple - just a misunderstanding about the way my particular TV's picture settings are laid out. The colour gamut setting is only visible when the colour space mode is set to 'Custom', but it still applies when other colour space modes are selected ('Auto' and 'Native'). I don't think the gamut setting can be changed by anything in the input stream - it seems to remain at whatever it was last set at. In my case, for some reason it was set to DCI-P3 (factory default perhaps), which made all UHD programmes look over-saturated. Once I'd re-set it to BT.2020, all UHD streams appeared normal, whatever colour space mode is selected (with the usual minor differences between 'Auto' and 'Native').