Sharing HiDef content between two HDR-2000Ts doesn't work

H

hellodave

New Member
I've been looking for a new PVR to replace my Media Centre PC, and finally plumped for an HDR-2000T this week. An big reason I chose the Humax was because it can stream recorded content - something the wife has got used to with the PC.

When the 2000T arrived I set it up in the lounge and tried streaming a test SD recording to the Panasonic TV upstairs - no joy; the format isn't supported. Annoyingly the Samsung TV in the lounge (next to the Humax) streams SD recordings perfectly! Undeterred, I decided to buy a second 2000T for the bedroom thinking that would stream everything from the lounge box, even HiDef recordings. Although I couldn't confirm this online, the consensus was that the 2000T is very similar to the HDR Fox T2, and that can stream HiDef recordings to itself. The 2000T manual just says "content share...can send those files to other devices" - it doesn't mention any restrictions (unlike the manual for the Panasonic DVR I looked at, which specifically states HiDef content cannot be streamed).

So...you can probably guess where this is going - installed the second 2000T upstairs, went to browse the lounge box and I can see all the recordings. SD recordings play perfectly...but HiDef ones just throw up a "cannot support this file format" error and won't play. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaggghh!

Both boxes are connected to a wired network, so there are no bandwidth issues. I also tried WiFi on one box but no change. "Content Sharing" and FTP access are on on both boxes. I've power cycled both boxes and even tried playing a few seconds of a HiDef recording downstairs before trying to stream it upstairs (in case it somehow generated a decryption key - clutching at straws!) but to no avail.

Am I missing something obvious, or have Humax hobbled the 2000T so it can't stream HiDef recordings? If so it's incredibly annoying - I've bought a box for one purpose, and it fails at it! Wish I'd bought a cheap Samsung BluRay player now - if my TV can stream from the Humax, one of those should too.

Any other suggestions - if I can still find one, is a HDR Fox T2 likely to work as an HD streaming client?
 
hellodave said:
So...you can probably guess where this is going - installed the second 2000T upstairs, went to browse the lounge box and I can see all the recordings. SD recordings play perfectly...but HiDef ones just throw up a "cannot support this file format" error and won't play. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaggghh!

Am I missing something obvious, or have Humax hobbled the 2000T so it can't stream HiDef recordings?
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Bummer. Obviously we don't know for sure, but it certainly looks like there is some kind of problem. "cannot support this file format" points at the DLNA client at the viewing end not being set up for the HiDef stream.

I hesitate to say that it will, but I suspect a HD-FOX or HDR-FOX would play the content. They will certainly play HiDef content streamed from a HDR-FOX with no issues. One chink of hope - the HD/HDR-FOX were considerably improved over 18 months or so from release by firmware updates, and this might be an oversight which gets corrected.
 
Definitely a bummer :( The 2000T seems to have a network bug too; you can only connect to network media if you load and exit the TV portal first. Until you do, "HDD" is the only option under Media...Storage. Makes streaming Sd content more tedious than it should be!

I've emailed HUMAX to ask if the box should be able to stream Hi Def recordings and this is a bug. If they say yes and intend to fix it then I'll probably stick with the 2000T. If not I might try to swap it for a HDR Fox. That's if I get sensible reply; don't know what HUMAX support are like but other manufacturers can be pretty useless!

Shame the first release of most products seems to be a beta :(
 
hellodave said:
Annoyingly the Samsung TV in the lounge (next to the Humax) streams SD recordings perfectly!
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What series of Samsung TV is this? I have an 18 month old Samsung E-series LED TV, and I found that while SD content plays OK, the TV gets the file length wrong; for example if the programme is an hour long it displays a duration of about 12 minutes. The file still plays, but after the 12 minutes (approx.) are up you loose transport controls so can't FFWD through adverts etc. I was streaming from a HDR-FOX T2, which might be responsible for the difference.
I agree with Black Hole, in that an HD- or HDR-FOX T2 would probably work as a client, almost certainly on SD content (as it is working with the Samsung, this suggests that the stream format is OK) and possibly with the HD content too, depending on whether the HDR-2000T bug is client or server related.
There are a few bugs coming to light now: this streaming bug, the lack of RF passthrough in standby and the front panel lights (distinguishing between off and recording). Humax must surely address these at some point. The problem is that, over the last year or so, Humax seem to have become reticent at releasing updates for their freeview products, even when these are known to exist and are good enough to be loaded onto units that they are happy to sell through Humax Direct. Unfortunately, promises of imminent software releases from Humax don't count for much: I hope to be proven wrong in the near future.
 
MontysEvilTwin said:
What series of Samsung TV is this? I have an 18 month old Samsung E-series LED TV, and I found that while SD content plays OK, the TV gets the file length wrong; for example if the programme is an hour long it displays a duration of about 12 minutes.
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It's a current model F series TV. As I was testing I haven't tried playing a file all the way through so it might get the length wrong - I'd have to check.

There are a few bugs coming to light now: this streaming bug, the lack of RF passthrough in standby and the front panel lights (distinguishing between off and recording). Humax must surely address these at some point. The problem is that, over the last year or so, Humax seem to have become reticent at releasing updates for their freeview products, even when these are known to exist and are good enough to be loaded onto units that they are happy to sell through Humax Direct. Unfortunately, promises of imminent software releases from Humax don't count for much: I hope to be proven wrong in the near future.
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A lot of manufacturers seem to be like this. I can hope it gets better, but no guarantees, or take my chance on an HDR FOX T2.
 
Well I've had a response from Humax support...but it's not very helpful! :(

Humax Support said:
The reason that you cannot share the HD recordings is that they are encrypted by the broadcaster and they cannot be shared between boxes due to Digital Rights Management (DRM).

The HDR 2000T is based upon the same software architecture as the HDR Fox T2. The HDR Fox T2 will not share HD recordings between boxes also due to DRM. Certain HD broadcasts maybe broadcast without encryption and this could account for the reason why some HD recordings may have been shared between boxes.
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Now I was under the impression that the HDR Fox T2 can share HD recordings between boxes because it supports the right encryption protocol, so is he talking rubbish? Or can it only share certain recordings on certain channels?

:frantic:
 
That's utter bollox. The broadcasts are not encrypted by the broadcaster, they are encrypted by the Humax in the process of writing them to disk (and in the case of HiDef are then marked "do not decrypt"). The HDR-FOX can indeed share StDef and HiDef recordings by DLNA, but in the case of HiDef requires a DLNA client to negotiate protected delivery (and the HD-FOX and HDR-FOX can do that as clients).

Maybe Humax have been persuaded to remove that capability from their newer products. It's getting to the point where I might have to buy a 2000T to examine. DLNA is the key to convenient decryption on the HDR-FOX, although not the only means of decrypting HiDef.
 
Black Hole said:
That's utter bollox. The broadcasts are not encrypted by the broadcaster, they are encrypted by the Humax in the process of writing them to disk (and in the case of HiDef are then marked "do not decrypt"). The HDR-FOX can indeed share StDef and HiDef recordings by DLNA, but in the case of HiDef requires a DLNA client to negotiate protected delivery (and the HD-FOX and HDR-FOX can do that as clients).
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Thanks - I thought so. I've sent them a snotty reply but I doubt I'll get a sensible answer. Looks like I'll be returning one of the 2000Ts and buying a Fox T2 as a streaming client. Even if it doesn't support HiDef streaming it'll still be cheaper.
 
As predicted. Humax are a dead-end. It's refund time :(
Humax Support said:
Prior to replying to your previous email I spoke to a supervisor to verify the details that I sent you are correct. The sharing of the HD recordings is not a supported feature of the HDR Fox T2. As I mentioned you cannot share HD Recordings between boxes as that they are encrypted by the broadcaster because of Digital Rights Management (DRM).
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Why is it so-called 'support' people are seemingly so utterly clueless most of the time? Informed amateurs often have a lot more knowledge than the muppets who work for these sorts of companies. It is a sad reflection on the state of these organisations.
 
prpr said:
Why is it so-called 'support' people are seemingly so utterly clueless most of the time? Informed amateurs often have a lot more knowledge than the muppets who work for these sorts of companies. It is a sad reflection on the state of these organisations.
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I suppose that's what happens when you make people work from a script and a knowledge base. If it's not in the kb, it's not supported or doesn't exist.

His final response was this:
Humax Support said:
Prior to replying to your previous email I spoke to a supervisor to verify the details that I sent you are correct. The sharing of the HD recordings is not a supported feature of the HDR Fox T2. As I mentioned you cannot share HD Recordings between boxes as that they are encrypted by the broadcaster because of Digital Rights Management (DRM).
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I asked the guy about the network bug too (you have to go in and out of TV portal before "Network" appears as an option under Media...storage) and he told me to reboot my router! When I replied to say it can't be the router otherwise TV portal wouldn't work he just told me it was definitely the router because he'd seen it before! I wouldn't mind if he'd actually bothered to read the question...both Humax boxes are connected to each other via a network switch, so the router has nothing to do with it. :(
 
prpr said:
Why is it so-called 'support' people are seemingly so utterly clueless most of the time?
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I wouldn't brand all support people with the same brush having benefited in the past from some exceptionally talented and helpful support people (Luigi from the ANSYS helpdesk, we haven't forgotten you). However I do agree that the Humax support line has deteriorated in recent years and much of the advice is just plain wrong. I receive a lot of email about 9200 issues because Humax have told people that reflashing the software will fix whatever problem the user is reporting. I still can't recall a single case being reported where reflashing with the same version made a blind bit of difference. Usually the problem is well known and has a known solution but Humax just don't seem bothered; tell the customer anything and get them off the line seems to be the ethos.
 
You could try investigating the complaints procedure and initiating a complaint for incompetent advice.

Recently I wanted to pursue a complaint against a law firm, and it was like pulling teeth to find out who their exec responsible for complaints is (until I pointed out I had a right to the information, and would escalate it to the regulatory authority if they didn't tell me). Even after I wrote to the complaints exec nothing happened, until I wrote again pointing out that if they did not reply with a stated action plan within 7 days I would escalate it - and simply complaining to the authority lands the firm with a bill for several thousand, so they would much rather keep it in house.

I'm not saying you have as much clout with Humax, but there should be an escalation process which lands on the appropriate big desk sooner or later.
 
Black Hole said:
You could try investigating the complaints procedure and initiating a complaint for incompetent advice.

Recently I wanted to pursue a complaint against a law firm, and it was like pulling teeth to find out who their exec responsible for complaints is (until I pointed out I had a right to the information, and would escalate it to the regulatory authority if they didn't tell me). Even after I wrote to the complaints exec nothing happened, until I wrote again pointing out that if they did not reply with a stated action plan within 7 days I would escalate it - and simply complaining to the authority lands the firm with a bill for several thousand, so they would much rather keep it in house.

I'm not saying you have as much clout with Humax, but there should be an escalation process which lands on the appropriate big desk sooner or later.
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That's always an option, although I don't think I'd get far. Trouble is they don't explicitly say they support HD streaming anywhere, so I can't claim they've misled me. Bad misinformed advice; yes, but I don't think complaining about that will get anything other than a "sorry". The shop have agreed to give me a full refund on the second box so I'm off to find an HDR Fox T2 as a streaming client.

I had a long drawn out saga with Panasonic a couple of years ago when I bought a TV which stated on the website product page "has web browser" - TV arrived, no browser. Contacted their customer service who told me that I was wrong and it didn't have a web browser. After a bit of e-mail ping-pong they ended up saying I "should have checked the specs more carefully before buying to avoid disappointment". This was insulting enough, but what really made me angry was that they'd corrected the website in the meantime to remove any mention of a web browser for this TV (but denied my e-mail had anything to do with it) - very sneaky! It was only when I sent their MD an extremely sarcastic 7 page illustrated letter, complete with before and after screenshots of their website that they finally relented. I only got £50 and some free Blu-Rays out of it but a principle was upheld! If you're bored the letter is here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZcXle8_oDkmZo9dxY0DxqjevZCTxoiebjMGdoOt1O1E (and the MD's reply said he did like the wallpaper).
 
Sky Player was shown on the front, back and one of the sides of the packaging and yes, do still have the box, I was using it to store things in, 'onest

sky.jpg
 
hellodave said:
I had a long drawn out saga with Panasonic a couple of years ago when I bought a TV which stated on the website product page "has web browser" - TV arrived, no browser.
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It always pays to download and read the manual to get more of an impression of what you might get and how it might work.
It was only when I sent their MD an extremely sarcastic 7 page illustrated letter, complete with before and after screenshots of their website that they finally relented. I only got £50 and some free Blu-Rays out of it but a principle was upheld! If you're bored the letter is here https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZcXle8_oDkmZo9dxY0DxqjevZCTxoiebjMGdoOt1O1E (and the MD's reply said he did like the wallpaper).
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Love it (apart from the wallpaper).

(Why do they call you Rodney Andy when your name's Dave?)
 
A quick update - I now have an HDR Fox T2 to go alongside my 2000T. The Fox certainly seems better built than the 2000T and you can see where they've done some serious cost-cutting on the new model!

As for streaming, it looks like the 2000T has had its HD protected streaming features removed - I cannot stream HiDef recordings between the 2000T and Fox in either direction. Perhaps there was a 50p license fee for DTCP and Humax decided they couldn't afford it? :rolleyes:

Happily I've now installed custom firmware on the Fox and unprotected HiDef recordings stream fine from that to the 2000T. I don't really need to stream the other way so it looks like the problem is finally solved! It really shouldn't be this hard - stupid DRM...
 
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